Time limit to earn a merit badge once started

[mrsrayzor]

This is really a two part question....

I've looked but can't find if there is any time limit once a boy starts a merit badge to finish it. For example, Johnny starts his Personal Management in 2000 and is trying to finish up in 2005 as he's getting closer to his Eagle rank. Does he just pick up where he left off?

The second part of the question is that the Personal Management merit badge requirements were changed in 2004. Does he now have to meet the changed requirements from 2004 or does he only have to meet the requirements that were in place in 2000?

Any official information regarding this anyone knows about?

DRay

[cballman]

the answer to your first question in they have until their 18th birthday to finish ANY merit badge. even if they started on it when they were 11.

the answer to the second question is if he still has the book AND a blue card that is singed off as a partial merit badge he can use the old req. but if he doesent have any record he must complete ALL the new req.that is current. also these questions have been answerd in other threads as in the rank. but anyhow welcome to the board.

[mrsrayzor]

Sorry I dodn't look deeper. Thanks for the info and the welcome.

[Rick Tyler]

I just wanted to add that when the requirements for a MB change, a Scout can either finish ALL the original requirements, or start over with the new requirements. A Scout may never mix some of the old requirements with some of the new.

[diamondbackAPL]

I think this was discussed in another thread.

[diamondbackAPL]

this was discussed under merit badges A-C, time limit for merit badges

[k2gw]

>>the answer to your first question in they have until their 18th birthday to finish ANY merit badge. even if they started on it when they were 11.

One very slight qualification. That works best when the Scout is dealing with the same Merit Badge counselor for the whole seven years.

While most Merit Badge counselors accept "partials" for requirements completed with another counselor, they are under no obligation to do so. It's the signature of the last merit badge counselor that goes on the card and they are the one attesting that ALL requirements have been met. So they have lattitude in asking about how the requirement was met if they didn't witness it themselves.

[ASM-142]

that is correct but the MBC can not dictate following new MB requirements if the scout started under the old.

[evmori]

I've looked but can't find if there is any time limit once a boy starts a merit badge to finish it. For example, Johnny starts his Personal Management in 2000 and is trying to finish up in 2005 as he's getting closer to his Eagle rank. Does he just pick up where he left off?

The only time limit is when the Scout turns 18.

The second part of the question is that the Personal Management merit badge requirements were changed in 2004. Does he now have to meet the changed requirements from 2004 or does he only have to meet the requirements that were in place in 2000?

If the Scout started the badge under the old requirements he completes the badge under the old requirements.

[k2gw]

that is correct but the MBC can not dictate following new MB requirements if the scout started under the old.

Absolutely. If the boy started under the old requirements, he can elect to finish the old requirements with a new counselor. But the new counselor could require him to demonstrate each and every one of the old requirements to him personally, even if the Scout previously did them with someone else..

BTW, if you read the advancement rules closely, it's actually the Scoutmaster who chooses which merit badge counselor the boy must use for a particular merit badge. The SCOUTMASTER's selection is from the list of qualified counselors provided by the district.

Technically, if a boy wants to complete a merit badge with a new counselor, he's supposed to go back to the Scoutmaster and have the scoutmaster select a new merit badge counselor and then sign a new Application for Merit Badge to authorize the boy to contact the new counselor.

But in reality, most Scoutmasters just sign the cards without checking them and let the boys select the counselor, or in the case of summer camp, use the one the camp provides.

YIS,

[k2gw]

that is correct but the MBC can not dictate following new MB requirements if the scout started under the old.

Absolutely. If the boy started under the old requirements, he can elect to finish the old requirements with a new counselor. But the new counselor could require him to demonstrate each and every one of the old requirements to him personally, even if the Scout previously did them with someone else..

BTW, if you read the advancement rules closely, it's actually the Scoutmaster who chooses which merit badge counselor the boy must use for a particular merit badge. The SCOUTMASTER's selection is from the list of qualified counselors provided by the district.

Technically, if a boy wants to complete a merit badge with a new counselor, he's supposed to go back to the Scoutmaster and have the scoutmaster select a new merit badge counselor and then sign a new Application for Merit Badge to authorize the boy to contact the new counselor.

But in reality, most Scoutmasters just sign the cards without checking them and let the boys select the counselor, or in the case of summer camp, use the one the camp provides.

YIS,

[ASM-142]

The requirement states

Pick A Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

This does not mean that the scout must use the MBC dictated by the SM.

[jhawk]

I don't think anyone would interpret the sentence "Pick one to earn" as a limit of one merit badge open at a time, would they? I think we all know there is no such rule. In fact, I think a scout could actually get a blue card signed for all 121 merit badges the day he becomes a scout if he really wanted to. And yet, this simple explaination to a scout about how to go about getting a merit badge started is construed to mean that the SM gets to control who the counselor is? No way. The SM or any other leader cannot dictate that. I still contend that that passage was intended to explain to a new scout the process to begin a badge. New scouts who have been Cubs tend to think merit badges are like arrow points--do a few things and someone signs off. It is hard for first-years and their parents to understand the proper procedure. As advancement chair I tell them and tell them what must be done, and a year after they cross over I still get moms coming to be saying their son has been working on ____merit badge and is almost done! When I ask who the counselor is, they say "Counselor....?" I ask about a blue card and I get "Um, what's that?" Then I explain again how it is done, give them a bluecard to get signed, and tell them who they MIGHT choose from the troop or how to find one through the council. (I have decided to write this whole process down for the parents of our newest boys and the ones about to cross over. They really need to understand the process better.)
I really think that is what the passage is trying to make clear to parents and new scouts.

[RWSmith]

If the Scout started the badge under the old requirements he completes the badge under the old requirements.

He may complete the badge under the old requirements. Or, he may complete the badge under the new requirements.... The Scout ALWAYS has this option available to him; it's his choice. Of course, that does not mean that he has to start over, from scratch. If he has already completed any duplicate (identical) requirements, they count, either way.

Sidebar: As mentioned ealier by ASM-142, this issue keeps coming up... Folks, this is a bulletin board... it's part of the way things work here. As of this moment, we've had 18,975 posts in 1,673 topics; and, we have 976 users. Although new users are expected to familiarize themselves with the board prior to posting, it's simply impossible and unreasonable to expect them to read all 19k posts. That's why I keep harping on (new users in particular) using the board's Search feature. Hmm... I'd really like to get with the Resource Crew / Counselors and start working on a forum that focuses on the "Top 10 (or 20) repeat questions about advancement". We could keep it trim and make it required reading for new users.... 5, 10 minutes, or so. (I'll check with the other Admins before I start though.)

In fact, I think a scout could actually get a blue card signed for all 121 merit badges the day he becomes a scout if he really wanted to.

Actually, yeah, he could do just that... However, just because the Scout can do it, doesn't mean it's wise to do it... That being said, the SM does NOT have the authority to deny a Scout's request for a Blue Card. He (the SM) can counsel the Scout as to why it may not be a wise choice at the time; but, if the Scout insists, the SM must comply.

....the SM gets to control who the counselor is? No way.

Yes way. The SM does have that option. But, he may also (and a lot of them do) leave it up to the Scout to "find" one that's available from the MBC roster. Reason being... the SM has the overall responsibility concerning his Scouts' advancement reqiurements. The SM delegates various aspets of his authority to ASMs, Sr. Scouts and even MBCs. And, although the SM has no say whatsoever about any MBC's decision to sign off on any MB requirement, the SM does have the authority to dictate who the MBC will be because the MBC will be acting under the SM's authority concerning the Scout's advancement.

[Quailman]

...the SM does NOT have the authority to deny a Scout's request for a Blue Card. He (the SM) can counsel the Scout as to why it may not be a wise choice at the time; but, if the Scout insists, the SM must comply.

We keep a list of partials on hand, and when a scout requests a blue card, the SM will review what's open and encourage him to finish up some if he has several. He'll get the blue card, but it's a time to review incompletes so that he doesn't just add another partial to the list.

[RWSmith]

We keep a list of partials on hand, and when a scout requests a blue card, the SM will review what's open and encourage him to finish up some if he has several. He'll get the blue card, but it's a time to review incompletes so that he doesn't just add another partial to the list.

Hey, that's a good idea!

[Mrw]

Just keep in mind that some may always remain partials because after starting them, the boy decided he just wasn't that interested.

Both of my boys had those and they included archery and shotgun shooting which they quickly decided they wouldn't get good enough to finish.

[FrankJ]

jhawk wrote:
....the SM gets to control who the counselor is? No way.

RWSmith replied:

Yes way. The SM does have that option. But, he may also (and a lot of them do) leave it up to the Scout to "find" one that's available from the MBC roster. Reason being... the SM has the overall responsibility concerning his Scouts' advancement reqiurements. The SM delegates various aspets of his authority to ASMs, Sr. Scouts and even MBCs. And, although the SM has no say whatsoever about any MBC's decision to sign off on any MB requirement, the SM does have the authority to dictate who the MBC will be because the MBC will be acting under the SM's authority concerning the Scout's advancement.

So what you are if saying is that if the SM doesn't like a counselor, be it a summer camp, merit badge clinic, parent, or whatever the SM can say you are not taking that merit badge from that counselor?

[Mrw]

If the SM does not want to use a counselor, say because he knows that they will sign off on anything the boys present, then no, he does not have to present that name to the boys as an option.

In our troop, the boys call or come to me for the name of a counselor for a given badge. There are a couple reasons we do this.

1. We are in this goofy "L" shaped district and the boys will take the first name off the list and the person may not be anywhere close to us, while further down the list is a known good counselor much closer to home. The parents very much appreciate this.

2. A couple years ago, a couple boys went to a merit badge day in another district and earned some badges. That was great and not a problem. The issue was that their buddies who worked on the same badges 6 months later called thier friend for the name of who they had seen and ended up having this guy come down to our troop meeting one evening to go over their badge with them. He lived over 20 miles away when there was someone 3 miles away that could have done the same thing.

I will often give the boys a couple names from which to choose, but it doesn't always make sense to do that.

[OldGreyBear]

Actually, if the Scoutmaster "knows" of a MBC that will sign off anything, doesnt he/she have a responsibility to the Disitrct of having that person removed as a MBC?