Unit Leader Signature

[BM_Crawford]

The Scoutmaster signed the one spot but not the other. I'm an ASM in the troop so would I be able to sign for Unit Leader to someone who is taking a merit badge off of me, or is that reserved for the SM only and not any ASMs?

[wagionvigil]

Leave the SM sign it when he turns in his card

[OldGreyBear]

It was my understanding the scout leaders signature (Scoutmaster or designee) is required on the blue card before the Counselor can begin working with the scout. The signature verifes that the scout has talked to an adult leader and obtained an approved/registered merit badge counselor. I take this information from meritbadge.com.

[wagionvigil]

I believe in this case the SM did sign the MB card just not the Applicants REcord

[PaulSWolf]

The Scoutmaster signed the one spot but not the other. I'm an ASM in the troop so would I be able to sign for Unit Leader to someone who is taking a merit badge off of me, or is that reserved for the SM only and not any ASMs?

Lets, review the entire procedure:

1. The Scout gets a blank card, and fills out the following information:
Application for Merit Badge: (front right panel) Scout's Name, Address, Unit, District, & Council
Application: (back left panel) Merit Badge name
Applicant's Record: (back center panel) Scout's Name and Merit Badge Name
Counselor's Record: (back right panel) Scout's Name, Unit, and Merit Badge Name

2, The Scout then presents the card to the SM (or his designee like an ASM or Advancement Chair).

3. The SM or designee inserts the name, address and phone number of the Counselor he wants the Scout to use, and then he signs ONCE on the front right panel "Application for Merit Badge" BEFORE the Scout starts working on the merit badge. This signifies his approval for the Scout to start the badge, and with who he should work.

4. The Scout contacts the Counselor, and proceeds to complete the work. As he completes individual requirements, the Counselor notes them in the table on the front center panel (which is actually the back of the "Applicant's Record").

5. When the work is done, the Counselor signs the back of the application in two places.

The left "Application" panel becomes the permanent Troop or Council record.
The center"Applicant's record" panel becomes the Scout's permanent record.
The right "Counselor's Record" panel becomes the Counselor's permanent record, which he tears off and keeps at this point, giving the other two panels back to the Scout .

6. The Scout then gives the two remaining panels back to the Scoutmaster (or his designee), who signs the back center panel "Applicant's Record" AFTER the Scout has completed the badge. That signature signifies his reciept of the completed application. At that point he gives the "Applicant Record" panel back to the Scout for HIS safe keeping, enters the information onto a Unit Advancement Report, and keeps the "Application" panel.

7. Then, depending on the procedure used in his Council, either attaches the Application panel to the Unit Advancement Report, or places it in the Unit's records.

As for your original question, whether you, as an ASM, can sign the card in either or both places where it says "unit leader signature", it really depends on what your troop policy, established by your SM and Unit Committe, has decided.

The key is that the FIRST signature (before the work) says to the Scout, "You may work on the badge.", and the SECOND signature (after the work) says, "I acknowledge that you did the work.".

[BM_Crawford]

Ok, thanks for all your help!

[Quailman]

In my district we have a 'merit badge fair' in late January, which is an opportunity for boys to meet with MB counselors and sign up for classes which will be held some time over the next month or so. Scouts do not bring blue cards to the MB fair, as they are not starting the badge. In many cases boys do not have a chance to get a card before the class is held.

Should I, as MB counselor not allow them to participate without a signed blue card? I held a class the following weekend for Bird Study, and none of the seven boys brought cards (I have a supply). I explained the policy to them, that they needed to get them signed by their SMs, and that it was up to him whether or not to accept it. I am doing a Dentistry MB this Friday and expect some to have them (I sent an e-mail reminder of the class with a plea to bring their prereqs and blue cards).

BTW, I am on the district list as an approved MB counselor for both MBs, and a few more.

[RWSmith]

Quailman,

The following comes straight out of BSA Phamplet 34542A, “A Guide for Merit Badge Counseling”:

• How the Merit Badge Counselor Helps
  
  1. The Scout contacts you, probably by phone. You may tell him what is expected of him over the phone, or you may want to make an appointment to discuss this with him face-to-face. Personal contact will make earning the badge a better experience for you both.
  
  2. The Scout should bring a merit badge application signed by his Scoutmaster or Varsity Scout Coach on his first visit. He must always be accompanied by a buddy.
  
  3. In your discussion of what is expected, you may want to start by finding out what the Scout already knows. Spend some time helping him learn the remaining requirements, or give guidance in completing projects. You can set up additional meetings with the Scout-not only for the purpose of passing him on the requirements, but rather to help him understand the subject.
  
  4. The Scout, along with his buddy, should make another appointment with you when he thinks he is prepared to prove his ability. You set the date, time, and place.
  
  5. This review session might be approached by the Scout with some apprehension. He is familiar with final exams in school and may see this meeting with you as another such experience. You can help a great deal by putting him at ease. Talk with him rather than grill or examine him. There is a big difference, yet you can still find out what he knows. Express honest enthusiasm for the things he has done, particularly if projects are involved. Your approval will give the Scout confidence.
  
  6. When he meets you, he should bring with him the projects required for completion. If these cannot be transported, he should present satisfactory evidence, such as a photograph of the project or adult certification. His Scoutmaster or Varsity Scout Coach might, for example, certify that a satisfactory bridge or tower has been built for Pioneering, or that the required meals were prepared for the Cooking merit badge. Your job, in addition to coaching, is to satisfy yourself that the requirements have been met. Question the Scout and, if you have any doubts, contact the adult who signed the statement.
  
  7. When you are satisfied that the Scout has met the requirements, you sign his merit badge application.
  
  [Emphasis added.]

IMO, Should means should. Not must. So, while the MBC does have the right to require the Blue Card prior to proceeding, he/she certainly has the discretion to take the Scout's word for it, or even call a UL, for a verbal.

[Mrw]

There should be no excuse for a scout to NOT have a blue card for the class. Most scout troops meet almost every week, and so every week that boy has a chance to get a blue card.

In addition, if the boys are going to the merit badge day to meet with the counselors, they really should have the blue cards with them before they go see the counselors for the first time. Regardless of whether they expect to have any requirements signed off that day.

This is where we need to be emphasizing responsibility and the "Be Prepared" motto of scouting!

[Lynda J]

Weh ad 6 boys show up at Merit Badge College for the First Aid Merit Badge that didn't have blue cards.. They said their SM didn't give them to them. They were all from the same troop.

[evmori]

Weh ad 6 boys show up at Merit Badge College for the First Aid Merit Badge that didn't have blue cards.. They said their SM didn't give them to them. They were all from the same troop.

It's not the SM's responsibility to "give" blue cards to the Scouts, it's the Scout's responsibility to "get" them from the SM.

No blue card, no MB.

[vpalango]

Weh ad 6 boys show up at Merit Badge College for the First Aid Merit Badge that didn't have blue cards.. They said their SM didn't give them to them. They were all from the same troop.

It's not the SM's responsibility to "give" blue cards to the Scouts, it's the Scout's responsibility to "get" them from the SM.

No blue card, no MB.

However, this doesn't stop the scout from purchasing Blue Cards at the local Scout Shop. I've seen that one happen too.

VLP

[Quailman]

What would be the point of scouts having their own supply of blue cards? Would they forge the SM sig so they could attend a MB class? For credit it must be turned in to the troop. I suppose they could forge the MB counselor's sig, but they could save money by getting a legit card from the SM.

If a scout in our troop takes the initiative to attend a class at the museum of natural science or the numismatic show (which offers an excellent program for scouts by the way), we can overlook the fact that he did not get a blue card signed in advance. The SM cannot withhold his signature anyway, so it appears to be a formality.

[evmori]

The SM cannot withhold his signature anyway, so it appears to be a formality.

Can't withhold his signature from what?

[Mrw]

I would think from the blue card saying that the scout is qualified to start the badge. Seeing as being registered is all the qualification the boys would need for that.

[Quailman]

Yes, that's what I meant.

[evmori]

I would think from the blue card saying that the scout is qualified to start the badge. Seeing as being registered is all the qualification the boys would need for that.

Technically if the SM doesn't sign the blue card prior to the Scout starting the MB, he doesn't have approval to start.

[ASM-142]

If a scout can not start a MB without approval from his SM then the SM controls the scouts advancement. Advancement should be controlled by the scout himself.

[evmori]

If a scout can not start a MB without approval from his SM then the SM controls the scouts advancement. Advancement should be controlled by the scout himself.

Read the SM handbook & Boy Scout Handbook. They both state the Scout is to receive a signed MB card & counselor name from his SM. And a merit badge doesn't need to be done for advancement purposes. They can be done because of an interest in the subject.

[RWSmith]

So what you are if saying is that if the SM doesn't like a counselor, be it a summer camp, merit badge clinic, parent, or whatever the SM can say you are not taking that merit badge from that counselor?

Ooh.... Good points! However, the fact that the SM is supposed to select the MBC, is not the same thing as saying the SM has the right to prevent who the MBC will be... for whatever reason. Further, this does not preclude the Scout's right (nor his parent's right) to request a certain MBC (or venue). And, should the SM go against the Scout's request, he/she should be prepared to justify it:

• SM says, "I know that MBC 'A' is slammed at work right now (or, already in the middle of another class, etc.); so, let's go with MBC 'B'." Okay--I can deal with that.
  
• SM says, "MBC 'C' will just pencil-whip it (or, I don't like him); so, you can't use him." Nay, that don't cut it because, if that really is the case, and you (the SM) know it, why is that MBC still on the roster?
  
• SM says, "MBC 'D' is your mother/father/relative, so you can't use her/him either" Bzzzt!!!... BSA policy spceficially prohibits the UL from preventing a relative in MBCing a Scout "....because he's your Dad." (That being said, OTOH... Every MB I EVER counseled my son on, I personally just so happened to make sure there were several other Scouts from his Troop taking the same MB, at the same time, so as to prevent any potential appearance of preferential treatment. As the MBC, I do have the right to NOT be a MBC for one of my relatives.)
  
• Summer Camp: If a Scout attends a Summer Camp, he is attending with the approval of his SM. Therefore, the SM is, by default, delegating said authority over to the Camp/Council. Even if the Scout gets a Partial, whatever's been legitimately and successfully completed may not be contested... not by a SM, not by a future MBC. (Ref: Satisfactory Evidence)
  
• MB Clinics (Not MB Mills): Once again, the Scout doesn't need the SM's permission to "start" a MB. Any MB. The Scout only needs to give the SM the opportunity to A) be made aware of what MBs the Scout is working on; and B) tell the Scout which MBC to contact. So, if the Scout requests one BC, or a dozen, the SM is obligated to provide it(them). And, if the SM says, "MBC 'A' will be your MBC; but, since you're asking, I'd really like to know why that MB interests you?"; and, then Scout says, "I want 'em all; plus, my Dad's taking me to the District/Council-sanctioned MB clinic next month.", then the Scout has done his job and the SM has done his job. Just because the SM has the right to "select" an MBC, doesn't mean he/she has the right to prevent the Scout from accessing other District/Council-sanctioned resources. In the absence of such an event, however... if I were the SM, I would expect the Scout to contact the MBC I chose (if any). I would also expect the Scout to discuss with me why he wants to deviate from my choice... I.e., "My friend from school --he's in another Troop-- is going to take this MB from his Uncle, and I want to work it with him." Then, I say, "Okay, as long as he (the MBC) is on the list, you're good to go."

There should be no excuse for a scout to NOT have a blue card for the class.

Well, although I agree... That being the case, there should likewise be no excuse for a SM running out of Blue Cards, or forgetting his briefcase, or whatever... happens all the time.

It's not the SM's responsibility to "give" blue cards to the Scouts, it's the Scout's responsibility to "get" them from the SM.

Oh, pullez... "Get?" A Scout (a child) can only ask the UL (an adult). Just because the UL (the adult) is obligated to comply, doesn't mean he/she is going to. See above.

No blue card, no MB.

Yeah, but the MB comes at the end, not the beginning... and, for a lot of MBs, that's the second (and final meeting) with the MBC. Maybe the Scout needs to be sent home to get the Blue Card that he forgot. But, maybe the Scout needs a pass on the first meeting with the MBC because the SM ran out of BCs (even though that never happens ).

Isn't it funny how we (adults) get all worked up over this "Blue Cards" thing... We're the adults; and, they're the children... Right? How often we forget that. Every Scout I ever met was a child... I didn't used to look at them that way though... I was a real hard-case. Even today, I have to remind myself that they're still kids. This may be a "boy-led" outfit, but we're still the adults and we're responsible for over-seeing the operation; and, we're still responsible to guide and enable each and every Scout we can reach--with as few road-blocks as possible. How many thousands of kids fail to make Eagle every year --year after year-- because we, the adults, get in their way.

I apologize if I used this word earlier; but, I don't think the SM "controls" advancement. Instead, I think "evmori" said it this way (earlier) is much more correct... The SM has "over-all responsibility" for the Scout's advancement... It's the Scout that "controls" his advancement.