Question: In your opinion, how....

[Scouting179]

Talk about a "hot topic" that's been discussed many, many times before - this is it!

In our troop (founded Sep 1991), we've produced 27 Eagles.

PRODUCED - hum, like a production line with Eagle being the only goal? Here lies a problem with the scouting program - the focus has been lost (at times - for some) and it usually takes adults running a program to produce.

Maturity makes no difference as long as the boy gets the requirements done.

Well, maturity does go hand in hand with finishing major accomplishments, in my opinion, and all too often, this is a result of adults involvement and not truely from the boy. Honestly, when I hear about a 12 yr old obtaining Eagle, I figure the adults got another one. I do understand this isn't always the case, but that's what my first thoughts are.

Most of you won't agree with me on this and that's ok - just my thoughts that I thought I'd share.

You most definitely missed the mark on the this one. When someone says USC has produced x number of Heisman winners would you say the same thing? Our troop is not focused on Scouts making Eagle, our boys have done so because many are motivated and we have a highly active program. I highly resent your insinuation otherwise.

Furthermore, to say 'I FIGURE THE ADULTS GOT ANOTHER ONE' is highly presumptuous and discredits the Scout who worked so hard to make Eagle.

[Scouting179]

I like how the discussion always moves toward maturity when age is discussed. I can think of some 20, 30, 40, 50, and older people that are not necessarily mature. There is certainly a reason why maturity does not appear in the requirements. I think it is very subjective and also hard to measure.

Excellent point.

[Lynda J]

Just completing the requirements that it takes to earn Eagle in itself is a sign of maturity. It is a lot of work and the boy has to be focused.

Kevin is 12. Earned Star in May and only lacks his time in his position of responsibility for Life. He has 17 completed badges and 6 that he is working on. He want Eagle by 16 because he then wants to be JASM and work on Palms. He is focused and loves the concept of scouting. He also loves working on badges.

I would like to see scouts get Eagle from 14-16 partly because that is a little before they get distracted by perfume and fuel smells. (girls and cars). I have one boy in my troop who is almost 17 and lacks 7 badges 4 of which are Eagle required. I honestly don't think he will make it. Girl friend gets in the way. And that will be sad.

[Scouting179]

I would like to see scouts get Eagle from 14-16 partly because that is a little before they get distracted by perfume and fuel smells. (girls and cars). I have one boy in my troop who is almost 17 and lacks 7 badges 4 of which are Eagle required. I honestly don't think he will make it. Girl friend gets in the way. And that will be sad.

This is sad and it's as old a problem as Scouting. It's called both the "G&G" factor for Gas and Girls and also "fumes factor" for car fumes and perfumes.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I like how the discussion always moves toward maturity when age is discussed.

This topic didn't turn to maturity - it was stated in the opening thread!

Furthermore, to say 'I FIGURE THE ADULTS GOT ANOTHER ONE' is highly presumptuous and discredits the Scout who worked so hard to make Eagle.

presumtuous - yes. discredits the scout - yes, and the adults/parents that helped him. Right or wrong - this is exactly what I think and I'm guessing that I'm not really alone on this.

Just completing the requirements that it takes to earn Eagle in itself is a sign of maturity. It is a lot of work and the boy has to be focused.

That's my point and I don't think many (I'M not saying all here folks) 12/13 year olds have this. Not without major help from parents or adults.
Some scouts are fortunate enough to have a parent involved in scouting and these kids have more support, but most kids don't have parents involved, in fact most parents don't have a clue of the advancement process or the path to Eagle. Again, I'm not talking about the boys with families involved. Many scouts out there have parents that drop them off at meetings, read various newsletters and volunteer occasionally. Most don't read the book or pay any attention to the badges and what the process is.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

There is certainly a reason why maturity does not appear in the requirements. I think it is very subjective and also hard to measure.

I agree that this is very hard to measure.

The other point I'd like to make here is that the Scouting program has so much to offer even for those that never make Eagle. How many times do we hear of lifers that wish they had finished. Or folks that never made it past 1st class but have very fond memories of scouting and like what the program offered.

For a young scout 12/13 to obtain Eagle tells me they must've spent their entire time in scouting focused only on this path. I just think they might've missed the true benefits of the program. I give more credit to a 16 - 18 year old that spent 6-8 yrs in the program and really transistioned from a young boy to a young adult. These are also very critical years in a boys life and to stay involved and devoted to a program during all the changes during youth is somthing I respect more. I just figure that the older boy most likely traveled more of this journey on his own.

[Scouting179]

Every Scout, no matter how far he gets, benefits from the program. I do agree that making Eagle should not be an end unto itself. However, getting there, no matter at what age, is to be commended and show not be prevented due to age alone. It takes commitment from the Scout to get there and ALL Scouts, not just Eagles, had help from adults getting there.

I made Eagle right after I turned 16. My parents dropped me off and picked me up and that's all. However, there were other adults who took me under their wing and helped me get there.

[Chief J]

...That's my point and I don't think many (I'M not saying all here folks) 12/13 year olds have this. Not without major help from parents or adults.
Some scouts are fortunate enough to have a parent involved in scouting and these kids have more support, but most kids don't have parents involved, in fact most parents don't have a clue of the advancement process or the path to Eagle. Again, I'm not talking about the boys with families involved. Many scouts out there have parents that drop them off at meetings, read various newsletters and volunteer occasionally. Most don't read the book or pay any attention to the badges and what the process is.

Before I rant, let me say I agree with you that this is the current state in most units. Now, if the Unit Leaders are only focusing on their kids and pushing them to make Eagle then that unit has alot of problems. The unit leaders need to take time out of their schedule to work with all kids who have the potential and desire to make Eagle. This is more critical if that Scout has a parent who does not give a hoot. If this is not happening, then the CC and COR need to look at their leadership and either train or replace.

As SM I try to work with all Scouts to deliver the program and the opportunities that Scouting offers. Yes, I make recomendations to my son, however, it is his responsibility to follow through and complete the recomendations. Despite this, my ASM's and I also meet and coach the other Scouts in the unit as to where they are, and what they need to do to get to the next level.

Also, you need to determnine if the Scout wants to be Eagle. I lost a great kid who loved to camp and fish, and hike because we all started to focus on the idea that he was 15 and only 1st Class. We better start pushing him to make Eagle so he does not run out of time. The only problem was, he was in Scouts to have fun on the outings, and not make Eagle.

Just my opinion for what it's worth,
Chief J

[Lynda J]

Before our current SM took this troop over there were BIG problems. They had dropped to 4 boys. 5 had left and joined other troops because it was very clear that there were only two boys that would make Eagle under the existing SM. His son and his nephew. When they made Eagle the SM and both boys simply stopped showing up. Our SM took the troop over, He had never been involved with scouting other than as a father.
He is great. And he works with each and every boy to advance. Told one the other night that he will make Eagle if he has to hogtie him and drag him across the line. This young man has no support from home. He is a foster getting ready toturn 17 and is 7 badged short of Eagle. If it takes every adult in our troop to help and support him we will do that, as long as he wants to do it. And he does.

Maturity has very little to do with age. We have a 10 year old that just came in that is more mature and responsible than two of our 15 year.
olds.
I do agree that if a boy goes through to fast he does not in come cases get the full benifit of the program. And when a 13-14 yr old has completed Eagle where does he go from there. He is to young to be JASM
IMHO 15-16 is the ideal age.

[Chief J]

Before our current SM took this troop over there were BIG problems. They had dropped to 4 boys. 5 had left and joined other troops because it was very clear that there were only two boys that would make Eagle under the existing SM. His son and his nephew. When they made Eagle the SM and both boys simply stopped showing up. Our SM took the troop over, He had never been involved with scouting other than as a father.
He is great. And he works with each and every boy to advance. Told one the other night that he will make Eagle if he has to hogtie him and drag him across the line. This young man has no support from home. He is a foster getting ready toturn 17 and is 7 badged short of Eagle. If it takes every adult in our troop to help and support him we will do that, as long as he wants to do it. And he does.

Sounds like you have the right adult leadership, helping everyone who has the desire, especially the ones who don't get support from home. My Best Wishes to him and your Troop in this endeavor.

Chief J

[Lynda J]

Yes we do. The boys love and respect him. They also have just enough fear of his that they know not to push him to far.

Like my dad use to say. A little fear is good for you.

[aflmom]

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post here so I'm just checking to see if it goes through okay.

[aflmom]

My son joined scouts last year and knew from the beginning he wanted to obtain his Eagle. This has been his first experience with scouting and he loves his troop. He views it as an extended family.

Back to the topic of age and maturity and obtaining your Eagle, I agree with most of the posters. I think ideally 15-17 would be a good age for most boys. However, my son wants to have his Eagle by age 14. He's currently 12 and just started attending college as a dual enrolled student. By the time he's 15-16, he wants to attend a Christian University full time and realizes it would be difficult to meet the Eagle requirements then.

Because of his age and goals, he may never be able to 'give back' to scouting as a student and that does bother him as does the thought of leaving his troop and youth group. Hopefully someday, he will be able to give back as an adult.

I know scouting as helped him tremendously in building self-esteem and confidence. Because of the positive feedback he's received, he decided he wanted to dual enroll and take the college placement test. When I asked him why he wanted to start this year, he commented the past two years he has coasted academically and decided it was time to get on with his life.

I have no doubt whatsoever of the impact scouting has made on his life. I see him setting goals, making plans, and following through with comittments. With every conference and board of review, I see his self-confidence improve.

At this time, no one in his troop is aware that he has started college. Someday, when the time is right, I hope to share with them what a blessing they have been and the role they have played in his life.
I'm grateful to everyone here that volunteers their time knowing that not all scouts may be able to give back to the organization.

[Mrw]

Wow!

Just the perfect example of why there is NOT any age requirement for earning Eagle!

[Mick Scouter]

Agreed!!!

[Lynda J]

aflmom. There is no reason your son can't give back. He can become an instructor for his troop. At 16 he can be a JASM. Even if he can't do everything with the troop because of a college scheduel he can still help with and where he can. And simply by setting a good example for other boys in the troop he has given back.

[ASM-142]

... Because of his age and goals, he may never be able to 'give back' to scouting as a student and that does bother him as does the thought of leaving his troop and youth group. ...

A lot of colleges are now afflicated with scouts, especially Venture Crews. This is a area that your son can give back to. He also can be a Den Chief for a local pack where he will be going to college.