[RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

[biglou]

I have to post this one. The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook has this statement about Project Planning:

"Plan your work by describing the present condition, the method, materials to be used, project helpers, a time schedule for carrying out the project, the estimated cost of the project, and how the needed funds will be obtained......"

My council's advancement committee is insisting that every Eagle Scout has to have a fundraiser with each and every ESLSP. The advancement committee says that a Scout may not use funds that he may have in his Troop's individual Scout account, donations he may have recieved, or money he may have saved from working a job. I believe that is not consistant with BSA policy. Who is right? Any thoughts?

[RWSmith]

Okay; this is insanely ridiculous! I will not even bother with a lengthy diatribe (ATT).

Ah! But, here's a thought: Put the word out to all Scouts (esp., Star and Life) -and- their parents in your council and tell them to call their SE, DE, CP, and every member their CAC/DAC, and ask why should they (the Scouts) have to abide by the ACP&P if the adults don't have to? Give them names and phone numbers to make it easy for them.

Good grief!

[Mrw]

This also begs the question of what to do with raised money that is not needed. My older son did a project in the national park that required only money for drinks and pizza for the work crew. I cheerfully donated that.

The younger son rebuilt a bridge that had washed away in a flood. The funds were provided by FEMA as part of the disaster relief for the area due to the total amount of damage done by the flooding. Again, I donated pizza, pop and a box of screws.

Fund raising for those projects would have been just plain silly.

[kwildman]

this is stupid. these people need to be removed.

[razor_strop]

My council's advancement committee is insisting that every Eagle Scout has to have a fundraiser with each and every ESLSP. The advancement committee [states] Scout may not use funds that he may have in his Troop's individual Scout account, donations he may have recieved, or money he may have saved from working a job. I believe that is not consistant with BSA policy. Who is right? Any thoughts?

My thought is ask them to show you where this is required in official BSA policy. When they can't, pull out 33088, show them the statement that leaders can't add to requirements, smile and wish them a nice day.

[wagionvigil]

THought I told you this Dave?

[smtroop168]

I have to post this one. The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook has this statement about Project Planning:

"Plan your work by describing the present condition, the method, materials to be used, project helpers, a time schedule for carrying out the project, the estimated cost of the project, and how the needed funds will be obtained......"

My council's advancement committee is insisting that every Eagle Scout has to have a fundraiser with each and every ESLSP. The advancement committee Scout may not use funds that he may have in his Troop's individual Scout account, donations he may have recieved, or money he may have saved from working a job. I believe that is not consistant with BSA policy. Who is right? Any thoughts?

Your CAC is incorrect but "Donations he may have received" can be construed as fundraising.

It is desired that scouts not self fund their EPs and there should be no reason for a scout or his parents to drain personal accounts to pay for his EP. What Leadership is shown by the scout to execute his EP if he empties his savings account? Can parents pay for the pizza? Sure but what is reasonable to expect. I had a scout's project where "me and my Dad are going to pay for my EP" Total Cost $3000. Dad hadn't been cut in on the plan.

One other subtle point....Eagle Project Approvals are not appealable to National only EBORs. Councils do have latitude in the #33088 to make sure the EP meets BSA standards and EBORs are charged to determine if "the manner in which the EP was carried out" meets requirement #5.

Stand by for some significant changes to the #33088 soon on EPs.

[evmori]

Another example of not understanding. Ask this person to show you where it states "every Eagle Scout has to have a fundraiser with each and every ESLSP" I'll bet you my annual income it doesn't state that.

[smtroop168]

BSA #33088 ACPP

An Eagle Scout project may not be a fund-raiser.
• Fund-raising is permitted only for securing
materials needed to carry out the project.
• Donors to Eagle Scout projects must be made
aware of what entity is benefiting from the project,
and that it clearly is not the Boy Scouts of America.
• Any funds raised for an Eagle Scout project that
are not used for the purchase of project materials
must be returned to the donor.

SOOOOO...if the EP requires no funding as some conservation projects may, you can't do a fundraiser, therefore not every EP would be able to do a fundraiser which blows your CAC's requirement out of the water.

Fund Raising does not equal fundraiser. Sounds like your CAC expects a standalone event vice donations from individuals. so if someone doesn't or can't attend your fundraiser does your CAC say you can't accept their money?

Maybe their logic is as I stated before....the Eagle Candidate should not feel forced to pay for it himself. It's like paying college tuition...find and use other people's money.

[FieldSports]

Gladly funded my son's EP. (and will be funding his college ). He let the Eagle advisor know his budget and the funds were from bank of Dad. He did still get donations of material from three sources and got discounts from vendors. Understand that not everyone is willing (or able) to fund. However, fundraising had nothing to do with him providing leadership to his project. The point in the application is that they want the scout knowing and documenting the source(s) of capital.

[smtroop168]

Gladly funded my son's EP. (and will be funding his college ). He let the Eagle advisor know his budget and the funds were from bank of Dad. He did still get donations of material from three sources and got discounts from vendors. Understand that not everyone is willing (or able) to fund. However, fundraising had nothing to do with him providing leadership to his project. The point in the application is that they want the scout knowing and documenting the source(s) of capital.

So it wasn't a 100% Dad resourced project and that's good.

I disagree that fundraising has nothing to do with providing leadership to the project. Gathering the necessary resources to execute an EP (Or any project) requires the project leader to use his leadership skills to ensure he has what he needs to properly execute his EP whether its cash, discounts, pizza, shovels or 2x4s.

[biglou]

THought I told you this Dave?

Wagion, my answer is kind of yes and no to that problem that we talked about the other day.

[FrankJ]

Please let us know how this turns out. It be interesting to see how long the silliness lasts.

Thinking back on all the different eagle projects I have been involved with. Funding of them is incredibly varied, but I do not remember a one with a "fundraiser" as part of it. I am not defining the scout soliciting individuals as a fundraiser in this sense.

[biglou]

Unfortunately this has been going on for quite some time. I can remember hearing about this 25 years ago in one of our former districts. That District Advancement Chair demanded/required that every Eagle Candidate in his district do a fundraiser for his project. Well, that District Advancement Chair eventually became the Council Advancement Committee Chair and I can think everyone is smart enough to figure out where things went. I think every CAC Chair since just kept that particular policy going.

[smtroop168]

Big Lou....You know (or maybe you don't) that Eagle project disapprovals, are not appealable to National. If you want to push the CAC, a scout could however, complete the his workbook without final signatures and submit with Eagle application. SM or committee would then probably not sign his Eagle application, bringing about an appealable issue, which you would win. I would only attempt something like this with the full understanding of the scout and his parents. Just the mention of it to the DAC/CAC should get their attention to review their policy or maybe read the ACPP!

[biglou]

Here lies the problem, the Scout completed his project to the satisfaction of the organization involved and the signed it off as being completed. I signed the application and the project book saying it was completed. The Eagle App was signed at the Scout Office saying it was completed. Just so everyone knows, the kid will be making the corrections needed. However, we have another Scout who is working on his project and we will be meeting tomorrow night to review his project workbook. This will be duly noted in project changes. We are going to make sure the "eyes" are crossed and "tee"s dotted. I have been in communication with the professional staff and they are working on the problems mentioned and they are going to be fixed.

[smtroop168]

Here lies the problem, the Scout completed his project to the satisfaction of the organization involved and the signed it off as being completed. I signed the application and the project book saying it was completed. The Eagle App was signed at the Scout Office saying it was completed. Just so everyone knows, the kid will be making the corrections needed. However, we have another Scout who is working on his project and we will be meeting tomorrow night to review his project workbook. This will be duly noted in project changes. We are going to make sure the "eyes" are crossed and "tee"s dotted. I have been in communication with the professional staff and they are working on the problems mentioned and they are going to be fixed.

So is it the first scout or the second scout you're concerned about with the CAC?

[biglou]

All of my future ones. We are getting the current candidates through things. The others have not started projects yet but will be here hopefully soon. It is up to them but I can certainly give them a gentle push in the right direction. Maybe.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Here lies the problem, the Scout completed his project to the satisfaction of the organization involved and the signed it off as being completed. I signed the application and the project book saying it was completed. The Eagle App was signed at the Scout Office saying it was completed. Just so everyone knows, the kid will be making the corrections needed. However, we have another Scout who is working on his project and we will be meeting tomorrow night to review his project workbook. This will be duly noted in project changes. We are going to make sure the "eyes" are crossed and "tee"s dotted. I have been in communication with the professional staff and they are working on the problems mentioned and they are going to be fixed.

I'm confused. You have a Scout who had his project plan, including a description of where any needed funds would be coming from, approved by everyone, including your council, before he started work on it. He finished his Eagle project. The final project paperwork was signed off on by the organization receiving the project, and his Scoutmaster. It was sent to your council, along with his Eagle application, which was filled out, and signed by the necessary people at the unit level. The Eagle application was approved by the council.

Then, at the EBOR, he was rejected for Eagle because his Eagle project did not include any fundraising?

And now, you are going to make him "correct" his Eagle project by doing fundraising after the fact? How is that going to work?

Why not simply appeal the EBOR decision, and have it reversed?

[Bill Pitcher]

Biglou, something is not right here . . . he has to raise funds "after the project is signed off and went to EBoR?" This can't be. Anyway, not all projects REQUIRE any fundraising! So, why should/could a Scout be told he HAS to raise $$$ if it isn't needed?
Ex. 1: a local library was doubling it's size so an Eagle candidate I had moved the whole library to a closed school. They used it for 9 months. All boxes needed were donated, as were all hand trucks and a truck to move the stuff. The Scout Troop had enough "computer wizzes" (sp!) to get the computer lab together and running. NO $$$ needed!
Ex. 2: the local SPCA needed food, blankets and towels for the animals, so an Eagle candidate I had ran a drive (like Scouting for Food) to obtain the "stuff" requested. Only material needed were bags and a flyer . . . again all donated. He collected over 4,000 food items and 500 towels and blankets (used for winter bedding). No $$$ needed.
The CAC is wrong and your SE and/or board of directors should be made aware SOON!

As for letting parents fund projects . . . I DO NOT LIKE IT even though it isn't prevented from happening. Our council feels parents do enough for their schools, churches and communities through taxes, pledges, holding office or volunteering for the Fire Departments and Rescue squads, hospitals, and Scouting FOS, etc. etc. that they SHOULD NOT fund the whole Eagle Project. Let "little Johnny" get out there and put a foot forward AND a little effort into finding the funding for his project. It is part of the learning process.