Basic Guidelines

[Mrw]

Does anyone have a one-page, basic outline for how advancement and merit badges are supposed to work?

We have a few over-zealous parents with our youngest boys (the ones that crossed over last spring). We have tried explaining this to them, but they are still scheduling thier kids advancement and merit badge work.

Today I found out they scheduled a group Fingerprinting session to earn the badge at a local police station, but now that they set everything up, I need to go back and explain that since the guy who agreed to work with the kids is not a registered counselor (I did check with Council), they will not get a badge out of it and will still need to see a counselor on my list. Or I will need to call and talk to the guy to see if he is willing to register.

We do have counselors for this on our list already!!! They just did not ask!!!!

[mt_goodrich]

Same problem I am having.

Was talking with a couple of parents of our newer boys about upcoming summer camp (yes..it is a few months off, but with all that is going on, I have to be ahead of things).

I was going over what their sons needed in the way of merit badges in order to advance and one commented to me "Oh...we are already working on that one..he'll bring you the worksheet next week".

I asked "What worksheet and who is the counselor?" (I knew the answer).

She stated that they didn't see any reason why not to work on a a bunch of merit badges at home and they had gone online and downloaded the "required" worksheet to complete the merit badge.

I had to explain to them that the boys are no longer in Cub Scouts. Parents do not sign off on advancement or merit badges (unless they are registered MB counselors). They started arguing with me that "it isn't fair and why do their boys have to hassle with that". Also, they do not complete worksheets to earn their MB.

Our council is getting strict with MB counselors and I am glad.

Told them those are the rules.

[Mrw]

We have explain ad nauseum to these parents and we are getting just about nowhere.

While it is great to have them involved and supportive, they are missing the point completely. I have gotten them to understand that the worksheets are a tool, but that there is no requirement for any badge to fill out a worksheet.

I was just hoping for an already put together guideline for them so I don't have to write my own.

[mt_goodrich]

If one shows up, I will certainly want a copy.

I will ask our Advancement Chairperson if she knows of any.

[biglou]

Here is a link to the Current Advancement Guidebook. You may find it very helpful.

http://www.zion412.org/Library/Advancem ... deBook.pdf

[smtroop168]

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badges

Here's the MB process from our site

[smtroop168]

Four Steps of Advancement
(Quoted from: Advancement Policies #33088, pages 24)

"A Boy Scout advances from Tenderfoot to Eagle by doing things with his patrol and his troop, with his leaders, and on his own. It's easy for him to advance, if the following four opportunities are provided for him."

1. The Boy Scout learns. "A Scout learns by doing. As he learns, he grows in ability to do his part as a member of the patrol and the troop. As he develops knowledge and skill, he is asked to teach others; and in this way he begins to develop leadership."

2. The Boy Scout is tested. "A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member, or a member of his troop. The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and pass candidates. The Scout's merit badge counselor teaches and tests on the requirements for merit badges."

3. The Boy Scout is reviewed. "After a Scout has completed all requirements for a rank, he has a board of review. For Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Palms, the review is conducted by members of the troop committee. The Eagle Scout board of review is conducted in accordance with local council procedures."

4. The Boy Scout is recognized. "When the board of review has certified a boy's advancement, he deserves to receive recognition as soon as possible. This should be done at a ceremony at the next troop meeting. The certificate for his new rank may be presented later at a formal court of honor.

[WVBeaver05]

Does anyone have a one-page, basic outline for how advancement and merit badges are supposed to work?

We have a few over-zealous parents with our youngest boys (the ones that crossed over last spring). We have tried explaining this to them, but they are still scheduling thier kids advancement and merit badge work.

Today I found out they scheduled a group Fingerprinting session to earn the badge at a local police station, but now that they set everything up, I need to go back and explain that since the guy who agreed to work with the kids is not a registered counselor (I did check with Council), they will not get a badge out of it and will still need to see a counselor on my list. Or I will need to call and talk to the guy to see if he is willing to register.

We do have counselors for this on our list already!!! They just did not ask!!!!

My first approach would be to get them to training. In the training they will be exposed to the way it is supposed to work.

The best case would be to get them involved and channel that energy that they are using into delivering the Scout program as it is designed.

YiS

[wagionvigil]

Just my opinion. Anything they set up will not be counted toward advancement. They in all reality have no right to set anything up.They are not registered? If so they must go to training. If not force them to register. " Only trained registered leaders may set up programs" Don't ask it is not in writing. You may have to get nasty on this They seem out of control.

[AquilaNegra2]

Just my opinion. Anything they set up will not be counted toward advancement. They in all reality have no right to set anything up.They are not registered? If so they must go to training. If not force them to register. " Only trained registered leaders may set up programs" Don't ask it is not in writing. You may have to get nasty on this They seem out of control.

Why wouldn't it be counted? Even if they aren't registered. If they have proof they've done it, why wouldn't it count?

Are you saying that I, if I was a Sculpture MBC, could not set up a date with the local Art store for Scouts to work on their MB? That the SM would have to set it up? Or that I could not set up a trip to the Police Station to do fingerprints with the blessing of a registered MBC (not necessarily present)? It's not in writing because it's not the case (I'm completely willing to be corrected if you find it).

I just got verbal approval from our District MB trainer to do exactly that -- set up a trip open to all Scouts (not just our unit) to work on a particular merit badge. And, no, I'm not in leadership, just a parent with a myriad of interests and skills. The merit badges work best when experts teach them -- professionals in their field. Many are NOT willing to register as counselors, but are still great resources. Sometimes they're not willing to do that for two boys, and an event works better.

MRW, are the boys balking at doing the badges? Or is that they did it without letting you know (note: I don't see where they need to ASK, but it's courtesy to inform)? Does the Scout have to use a counselor from YOUR list, or any BSA-approved MBC? Rarely are many from a merit badge clinic or event going to be on that list. I would be careful to let those "overzealous parents" know that you APPRECIATE their enthusiasm and concern for their boys, hand out the merit badge registration forms, get them trained as MBCs (it's a 15 minute read), and ask to be kept in the loop (preferably beforehand so it doesn't conflict with troop activities).

Scouts are different -- some have no interest in earning more than the 21 required badges; be sure not to squelch the enthusiasm of those who want more -- whether Scouts or parents.

[AquilaNegra2]

(I can't seem to edit)

Clarification before I get flamed...

They can go to the event before obtaining SM approval -- it's up to the registered MBC whether to accept their work or not (though I can't see why not if they have proof). They can't EARN the badge before the SM approves it, but we accept work done beforehand all the time. Why would it be different here?

"Process: A scout decides he would like to earn a specific merit badge. He obtains approval to begin the merit badge from his Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster identifies possible merit badge counselors. The scout identifies another scout that will be his partner to attend meetings with the counselor to follow safe scouting guidelines. He then contacts the counselor to begin badge work. The counselor reviews the requirements with the scouts and they decide on projects to complete and a completion schedule. The counselor provides expertise, advice, guidance as needed until the scouts have completed the requirements. The merit badge counselor certifies completion of requirements and the merit badge patch is presented at a court of honor or troop meeting."

[wagionvigil]

I am seeing them working outside the Troop Organization that is my concern. Remember RMC do not have to accept anything done before seeing them. IE: I do not accept most climbing partials It would also seem these scouts are not getting permission from the SM first as you stated.

[Mrw]

MRW, are the boys balking at doing the badges? Or is that they did it without letting you know (note: I don't see where they need to ASK, but it's courtesy to inform)? Does the Scout have to use a counselor from YOUR list, or any BSA-approved MBC? Rarely are many from a merit badge clinic or event going to be on that list. I would be careful to let those "overzealous parents" know that you APPRECIATE their enthusiasm and concern for their boys, hand out the merit badge registration forms, get them trained as MBCs (it's a 15 minute read), and ask to be kept in the loop (preferably beforehand so it doesn't conflict with troop activities).

The issue here is that they think they are going to the PD, and learn about fingerprinting and get a merit badge out of it. The parent in this instance called around to find a PD that would do this with the kids because the kids thought they wanted to earn this as a patrol activity. The problem is that they are not going to go see a registered MBC for this.

So I need to explain AGAIN!!!! How to earn a merit badge and how to get the name of a counselor to work with. And how to let your kids learn to do for themselves. So they either need to realize that we will expect them to go a second time to visit an actual counselor or I need to call and talk to the officer involved and see if he wants to register with the BSA and become a counselor.

If they were planning on seeing a registered counselor, no problem. If the boys had set this up with a counselor, no problem.

This group of parents is being particularly hard to train in both the boy led aspect of advancement and the boy scheduled aspect of advancement. The boys themselves seem to understand how the program work except for the part about how they are to work at their own pace and not at Mom's.

[VenturingL]

I would not call the PD to get someone registered as a MBC - that would just encourage these parents to circumvent procedure in the future. Stick to your guns - it's refreshing considering how many of us complain of SM's who do not follow the rules.

[evmori]

Why wouldn't it count? Because it was done without the approval of the MB counselor. It is up to each MB counselor as to what they will accept. This isn't Cub Scouts. The boys are the ones to be initiating the contact with the MB counselor, not mommy & daddy. And where does fair come into the mix?

[mt_goodrich]

This reminds me of the parents that insist that their child completed a requirement three years earlier. They went to a city council meeting as a Webelos Den. I wouldn't think it would count because they weren't in Boy Scouts. However, does that mean it is up to the MB counselor to accept it or not?

[Mrw]

Why wouldn't it count? Because it was done without the approval of the MB counselor. It is up to each MB counselor as to what they will accept. This isn't Cub Scouts. The boys are the ones to be initiating the contact with the MB counselor, not mommy & daddy. And where does fair come into the mix?

This trip to the PD will not earn them anything because they are not going to see a registered MBC. And I am not feeling like going out of my way to go and explain Scouting to this guy and see if he wants to sign up.

We will be explaining the issue AGAIN to the parents and hopefully they see the point, cancel the session so as not to waste the police officer's time and let their kids ask me for a counselor's name so they can earn it the right way.

[AquilaNegra2]

This trip to the PD will not earn them anything because they are not going to see a registered MBC. And I am not feeling like going out of my way to go and explain Scouting to this guy and see if he wants to sign up.

The MBC doesn't have to teach this. A MBC is more of a proctor, making certain the requirements have been done properly. So, if they had gone to the SM, obtained a signature (whether blue card or other method), talked to a MBC, and then gone with his blessing, it certainly would count, regardless of who is teaching. OR, if they do those things after the fact and the MBC is willing to accept proof that they did it, it could count as well. If a Scout approached me after the fact, and had a completed worksheet, photos, and the fingerprint card from the trip, I'd count it.

[kwildman]

i would work to register these parents that want to help and get them trained. I dont think they are doing this against anyone but rather they think they are helping.

[alex gregory]

Remember that MBC approval does not mean pre-approved, just approval. If the MBC ius satisfied that a requirement has beeen met, the requirement has been met.