Time extensions to complete Eagle requirements

[international]

My son was just denied approval for his Eagle Service project because he can't EVER make it to Eagle.

Now,what happen is that when he went for his BOR to became Life 6 months before his 18 birthday, one of the Leaders told him that he was missing the EDGE requirement. As a good scout, he was prepared, and he had one of his brothers in attendance to fulfilled that new requirement, but no one in the Leadership was sure about the requirements for EDGE, so, and since he really need to move up a rank that day (I know,too close,but this is a boy that's been working on several College credits while in high school, so he's not been "playing around"and even though he likes the physical part of the scouting program,(camping, etc)he's been frustrated with poor record keeping) the Leadership agreed to advance him to Life THAT DAY and he could finish the EDGE requirement as soon as they figure it out what was it about.

It took 3 weeks after the BOR for my son to finish the EDGE requirement (to no fault of his)So almost 4 months after that, and after his Eagle project was rejected 3 times (one time was because there was not enough leadership people to approve it ???!)they told him that actually he could never become Eagle because he never become Life when THEY told him he would...

When I inquire about, they told me that since my son didn't have the EDGE requirement when he went to his LIFE BOR,it was only awarded to him, after he completed that requirement, 3 weeks latter.
OK, I was at the BOR meeting,and I know that my son and his brother knew the EDGE requirement and were ready to do it, but the Leadership wasn't sure, so they PROMISE that they would advance my son, and take care of that requirement latter...

I would like to know what you think, and what I should do, besides roll over and say "you got me"

Thank you

[razor_strop]

What was recorded in his Handbook and submitted to council on the advancement report as the date he completed the Life rank? That date would have to be at least 6 months before his 18th birthday to allow him to successfully complete Requirements 1 and 4 (active in troop, and POR) for Eagle, assuming the leadership would be available and willing to do both a Scoutmaster conference and BOR the day before he turns 18. If the date of his Life rank is less than 6 months from his 18th birthday, I believe (someone may know of a loophole that I don't) that he won't be able to complete all Eagle requirements in time.

It's very unfortunate if the BOR promised one thing (right or wrong) and then delivered something else, but it's a lasting lesson on "get it in writing", rather than accept a promise when making a deal.

[E V Augustine]

You describe two separate issues; the project and the Life rank date.

The project only requires two signatures from the troop, Scoutmaster and unit committee member. The beneficiary representative signature should have been gotten along the way. Most district advancement chairs will respond to a short timer if they know of the circumstances. Not sure how there were not enough people around. That work should proceed because of the time required to complete. There is no advancement policy or guidance prohibiting the project even if it is moot.

The part about leaders not knowing how to complete the EDGE requirement is a bit troubling. BSA advancement policies and guidance are severely biased to the Scout. Like it or not the involvement of an incompetent leader usually means the Scout advances. As the earlier poster indicated if the Life rank date is 6 months prior to his 18th birthday his work should proceed with the intent of completing it before his 18th.

A call to the district advancement chair is probably in order to avoid an appeal for an Eagle Board of Review at some future time.

[smtroop168]

If your son did not complete all the requirement to be advanced to Life before he was 17.5, then he cannot complete the Eagle Requirements prior to his 18th birthday. You could try asking for a time extension, using the story the BOR gave you, but it's unlikely in my opinion. Here is the procedure:

Time Extensions
If a Scout or a Venturer foresees that he will be unable to complete the requirements for the Eagle rank prior to his 18th birthday, he may file a petition in writing with the National Boy Scout Committee through the local council for special permission to continue to work toward the award after reaching age 18. The petition also may be filed by the unit leader or unit committee. The petition must show good and sufficient evidence and detail the extenuating circumstances that prevented the Scout from completing the requirements prior to his 18th birthday. Extenuating circumstances are defined as conditions or situations that are totally beyond the control of the Scout or Venturer. If circumstances should also prevent a Scout or a Venturer from requesting the extension before he is 18, it is still permissible to ask for the extension, detailing the extenuating circumstances that prevented him from completing the requirements and from requesting the extension before age 18.

Now a couple of questions:

When did he make Star? The reason I ask is that he may not of had to complete the new Life EDGE requirement because if he was already a Star as of 1 Jan 2010, he was working toward Life in 2010 and can complete the old Life requirements.

A new 12th edition of the Boy Scout Handbook (34622) was issued in the summer of 2009. That book contains new requirements for each rank listed below, which did not officially take effect until January 1, 2010. Scouts working toward ranks in 2009 could use the new requirements, or could continue to use the old requirements, at their option. If a Scout started work toward a rank before January 1, 2010, using the requirements that were current before January 1, 2010, he may complete THAT RANK ONLY using the old requirements. Any progress toward a rank that is begun after January 1, 2010, must use the requirements as they are presented in the Boy Scout Handbook (34622) or in the 2010 Boy Scout Requirements book (34765). The fact that a Scout can work on the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class simultaneously does NOT mean that he is "working toward all three ranks". He can NOT use the old requirements for all three. Similarly, if a Scout has multiple merit badges, he is NOT "working toward Star, Life, and Eagle". He may only use the old requirements for the NEXT rank he completes.

I'm unclear how the SM would even send your son to a BOR if he hadn't completed all the requirements. The EDGE requirement is pretty clear. Teach younger scouts their rank requirements. EDGE is just the process that the BSA came up with and it is explained in the BSHB. The BOR appears to have adjourned and given him specific instructions on what he needed to do before he would be advanced. Once he completed the requirement, his Life Rank date is that date...not the original BOR date.

[international]

Thank you all for your replies. I have another Life scout and a Star scout, and I really can't wait for them to be done with scouting, I actually told them that they should just quit,because its been so frustrating for the boys and for me (my husband couldn't care less about it)good thing they didn't do it

My boy was told that all the committee members need to approve the project, I am not sure, but I think it was an excuse since the next week they told him about the Life advance being filled 3 weeks after the BOR date...
Unfortunately he made Star on January of last year, so I guess he did needed the EDGE requirement, but isn't the fact that he was ready to do it, enough to qualify for "Extenuating circumstances are defined as conditions or situations that are totally beyond the control of the Scout or Venturer" ?
I am not even counting the fact that they told us that they would count the date of the BOR as my son's advancement to Life, or the fact that it took them 4 months to let us know that after all they did not honor the promise, but don't you guys think that if a boy is prepared and they tell him that he needs to wait it isn't his fault?
What is an Eagle Board of Review appeal and can my son qualify?

Thank you!

[smtroop168]

Thank you all for your replies. I have another Life scout and a Star scout, and I really can't wait for them to be done with scouting, I actually told them that they should just quit,because its been so frustrating for the boys and for me (my husband couldn't care less about it)good thing they didn't do it

My boy was told that all the committee members need to approve the project, I am not sure, but I think it was an excuse since the next week they told him about the Life advance being filled 3 weeks after the BOR date...
Unfortunately he made Star on January of last year, so I guess he did needed the EDGE requirement, but isn't the fact that he was ready to do it, enough to qualify for "Extenuating circumstances are defined as conditions or situations that are totally beyond the control of the Scout or Venturer" ?
I am not even counting the fact that they told us that they would count the date of the BOR as my son's advancement to Life, or the fact that it took them 4 months to let us know that after all they did not honor the promise, but don't you guys think that if a boy is prepared and they tell him that he needs to wait it isn't his fault?
What is an Eagle Board of Review appeal and can my son qualify?

Thank you!

"The Scout must secure the prior approval of his unit leader, his unit committee, and the benefactor of the project. The project must also be reviewed and approved by the district or council advancement committee or their designee to make sure that it meets the stated standards for Eagle Scout service projects before the project is started. " Only the Committee Chair signs the book but most units have the scout explain their EP to them at a Committee meeting.

If he was ready to complete the EDGE requirement on the night of the BOR, just do it and go back to the BOR before they go home and sign it off. 3 weeks later would not sit well with me. Of course I wouldn't send the scout to a BOR if he hadn't done it already. When was the SM conference? Same day as the BOR?

As I said, your son had plenty of time to get this done so I don't know what extenuating circumstance there is that was out of his control. He could have done this requirement with a scout in your living room.

An EBOR appeal only would occur if he had an EBOR to begin with.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Actually, all rank advancement is recorded as of the date of the BOR. It does not matter when they filed the paperwork. What matters is if they used the date of the actual BOR, or some other random date.

Your best bet is to talk to your District Advancement Chair. Your council can give you his/her contact information.

Your son does not qualify for an Eagle Board of Review appeal because he never had an Eagle Board of Review.

Because he has not yet completed all of the requirements for Eagle, what he might qualify for is a Time Extension.

Smtroop168 gave you the info on time extensions copied straight out of the BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book.

Your son, not you, must be the one to file the petition. I would suggest going thru your council (see District Advancement Chair comment above), and not your Troop. I would also suggest that your son gets on this today, as he either has already hit 18, or will any day now.

If you have other sons you might look at moving them to a different Troop in your area. One that knows what it is doing, and will not send a boy to a BOR with requirements unsigned in his handbook.

[smtroop168]

Actually, all rank advancement is recorded as of the date of the BOR. It does not matter when they filed the paperwork. What matters is if they used the date of the actual BOR, or some other random date.

Your best bet is to talk to your District Advancement Chair. Your council can give you his/her contact information.

Your son does not qualify for an Eagle Board of Review appeal because he never had an Eagle Board of Review.

Because he has not yet completed all of the requirements for Eagle, what he might qualify for is a Time Extension.

Smtroop168 gave you the info on time extensions copied straight out of the BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book.

Your son, not you, must be the one to file the petition. I would suggest going thru your council (see District Advancement Chair comment above), and not your Troop. I would also suggest that your son gets on this today, as he either has already hit 18, or will any day now.

If you have other sons you might look at moving them to a different Troop in your area. One that knows what it is doing, and will not send a boy to a BOR with requirements unsigned in his handbook.

Not to confuse her but the Advancement date is the date the BOR says all the requirements were completed not the first date where the BOR was adjourned pending completion of the EDGE requirement.

[Fred Johnson]

QUESTION - Was the Life BOR done as soon as your son requested a BOR or did he have to wait weeks or months for a troop scheduled BOR? Not sure it makes a difference, but I'm curious.

I ask because, my apologies, the LIFE BOR was a schedule critical BOR. I know I'm one that is often guilty of procrastination. But things don't always turn out good when left to the last minute. I was wondering if your son was very busy with life and other activities ... or if the troop made him wait weeks or months to get his BOR done. Some troops do that. Some troops have only four scheduled BOR dates throughout the year. Other troops hold BORs as soon as possible after requested, often the same night.

If he's going to try to fix the situation, act NOW. If necessary, have him call the district advancement chair. If he does not get a positive answer, have him call the council advancement chair and/or visit in person. If that doesn't work, have him keep escalating the issue.

I'd really hate to see him not earn his eagle over such a small requirement that was not in his scout handbook that gets blown way out of proportion.

The important point is ACT NOW. It may be too late now, but it definitely will be too late if you wait. Also his acting aggressively now on this can affect what happens. In my view, he has a really good argument to make. He just might not know it because he's young.

Just remember...

Eagle scout is not the end-all, be-all of scouts. It's just a rank. Hopefully, your sons enjoy and have benefited from dozens of camp outs, activities, adventures and friendships. These are all growing opportunities.


Finally, I'd take a hard look at the situation and what happened.

(My apologies now to all those great long term Scouters who do a great job every day...) Watch out!!!! There are Scouters (adult leaders) who spend more time protecting the integrity of the Eagle rank and their troop processes than helping every scout succeed.

If that's your son's troop, transfer your other sons. Get them into a different troop. Scouting should be fun and the adult leaders should help every scout succeed.

If I was a leader in your troop and knew the tight time constraint and the single EDGE requirement, I would have helped the scout find the resources to do an EDGE, let him get it done and then get his BOR signed off on the same night. Anything less means the Life BOR is deciding the scout won't be an Eagle because of a small requirement that was not in his scout book that slipped by everyone. (scoutmaster, advancement coordinator, ....) I would have helped the scout solve the issue and put his advancement back in his hands. Hopefully, he'd dig down and get things done.

Because this didn't happen, it makes me wonder about the whole situation. Something doesn't jive.

You have my sympathies.

Good luck!

[FrankJ]

Do remember that this is a youth program and a youth award. It is not the Spanish inquisition. (Sorry I watched too much Monty Python in my youth.) Stay honest & true yourself, but to take the scout at his word as well.

[E V Augustine]

Nuts4Scouts,

I mentioned an appeal for a board of review; not an appeal for rank, or relief from conditions placed by the board of review. The procedure is used when a Scout is denied the opportunity to present himself to a board of review. The process sorts out whether or not, and when the Scout completed the rank requirements.

The initial poster indicated the Scout was denied troop approval of his Eagle Project plan. The initial poster never stated any rank dates, only relative time frames. Depending on how one interprets the information provided the Scout has a shot, or was done a long time ago. If the rank date is in dispute this matter should have been settled then.

I have only seen extensions granted after supporting action by the Council Advancement Committee and Council Executive for "life events" that caused the need. The circumstances described here may not rise to that level.

[smtroop168]

We had an "Act of God" extension last winter when the scouts EP job site was under 2 feet of snow and the access to it was impassable.

[ThunderingWind]

We had an "Act of God" extension last winter when the scouts EP job site was under 2 feet of snow and the access to it was impassable.

Said with Tongue in Cheek...........unacceptable...The Eagle Candidate should have made allowances in his project plan for snow and had plows and front loaders on standby.

I only add that very sarcastic remark above because there seems to be a rash of very poor Advancement "policies" going around and it would not suprise me to hear of "some committee, some where," making the above declaration.

[ronin718]

There seems to be a lot of comments here about how the boy is being run over by the Board, but something stuck out to me. Mom admits that the young man earned his Star in January 2010. This should mean that the young man was aware of the new 2010 requirements for Life and should've come to the BoR with all of the requirements completed, not with a brother in tow "just in case".

Excuse me for not jumping on the bandwagon here, but the Board is not the responsible party here for this failure to advance. The young man has the responsibility. If you want to point a finger at an adult, perhaps the SM should've caught this during the SMC and recommended that he get the EDGE requirement taken care of before the BoR. And perhaps this did happen, we don't know from the facts presented.

Yes, this is an unfortunate event. Without knowing all of the details of the last seven years, it's hard to assign blame as to why this Scout didn't earn his Eagle. However, when the only time requirement is the minimum 16 months of leadership for Star, Life, and Eagle, I have difficulty feeling sympathy for last second Eagles and youth who "run out of time".

But what do I know... I'm just the father of a 14 y/o Eagle.

[smtroop168]

There is a "Paul Harvey" story in here somewhere for sure.

[jr56]

By all means issue an appeal to the District Advancement Chair. Unfortunately, I have seen all too many cases where a young man gets tripped up by waiting until the last minute. If you want to become an Eagle, don't procrastinate.

[evmori]

It took 3 weeks after the BOR for my son to finish the EDGE requirement

Does anyone else take issue with this? This should not take three months! This should take no more than a day max!

[kwildman]

“A committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain.” – Lazarus Long

[Fred Johnson]

It took 3 weeks after the BOR for my son to finish the EDGE requirement

Does anyone else take issue with this? This should not take three months! This should take no more than a day max!

Ummmm... weeks... not months. Your point is still valid though.

[smtroop168]

It took 3 weeks after the BOR for my son to finish the EDGE requirement

Does anyone else take issue with this? This should not take three months! This should take no more than a day max!

Part of the Paul Harvey I'm sure.