Wow....We Really Dropped the Ball

[Chief J]

Our Scout shop will only sell advancement items (rank/merit badges/etc) in the following situations:

1) with an advancement report
2) with a copy of the pocket card showing the award was earned (This is how scouts/parents can purchase replacement/additional items earned)
3) with the Council approval certifying the award was earned. (This is accomplished by stopping at the Service Desk and having an employee look-up and document (write down) that it is ok for the person to purchase the item in question without #1 or #2 above.

Is it perfect No, can it be circumvented Yes, but it is the system in place and works pretty well.

Chief J

[milominderbinder2]

The little shop I go to doesn't have Internet access or access to Scoutnet. I think sometimes people who live in metropolises forget that there are a lot of Scouts in areas that still live in places that more closely resemble Ozzie and Harriet's neighborhood rather than Ozzy and Sharon's.

Those little shops are not allowed to sell badges of rank or merit badges. Only a council service center can sell restricted items and they have access to look up the records.

- Craig

[milominderbinder2]

Our Scout shop will only sell advancement items (rank/merit badges/etc) in the following situations:

1) with an advancement report
2) with a copy of the pocket card showing the award was earned (This is how scouts/parents can purchase replacement/additional items earned)
3) with the Council approval certifying the award was earned. (This is accomplished by stopping at the Service Desk and having an employee look-up and document (write down) that it is ok for the person to purchase the item in question without #1 or #2 above.

Is it perfect No, can it be circumvented Yes, but it is the system in place and works pretty well.

Chief J

That is exactly how it is supposed to be! Your council is doing the right thing for your Scouts.

- Craig

[Mrw]

Our scout shop does require an advancement report to buy rank and merit badges. They are often just dropped into the file basket now as they are all printed from ScoutNet when doing on-line advancement, but they do somethimes check them against what I am buying.

It is random and not just if I go when they are not busy.

[milominderbinder2]

Our scout shop does require an advancement report to buy rank and merit badges. They are often just dropped into the file basket now as they are all printed from ScoutNet when doing on-line advancement, but they do somethimes check them against what I am buying.

It is random and not just if I go when they are not busy.

Please go to them. Get the Advancement Policies off of their bookshelf. SHow them this on page 26:

"Badges of rank, merit badges, and Eagle Palms are restricted items. These items may not be sold or distributed unless the Advancement Report, No. 34403B, has been properly filled out and has been submitted to the local council office. To do otherwise will jeopardize individual youth members' record of achievement."

Ask them how often a Scout is to be Trustworthy. Ask them how we can teach teh Scouts to follow the rules if they won't.

Mrw, we all have an obligation to work together. Maybe they just don't know the BSA policies. Please do your best to help them.

- Craig

[scoutaholic]

Our scout shop does require an advancement report to buy rank and merit badges. They are often just dropped into the file basket now as they are all printed from ScoutNet when doing on-line advancement, but they do somethimes check them against what I am buying.

It is random and not just if I go when they are not busy.

Please go to them. Get the Advancement Policies off of their bookshelf. SHow them this on page 26:

"Badges of rank, merit badges, and Eagle Palms are restricted items. These items may not be sold or distributed unless the Advancement Report, No. 34403B, has been properly filled out and has been submitted to the local council office. To do otherwise will jeopardize individual youth members' record of achievement."

Ask them how often a Scout is to be Trustworthy. Ask them how we can teach teh Scouts to follow the rules if they won't.

Mrw, we all have an obligation to work together. Maybe they just don't know the BSA policies. Please do your best to help them.

- Craig

Craig,

I think you may be reading extra rules into this one. Your own quote from the advancement guidelines says the restricted items 'may not be sold or distributed unless the Advancement Report, No. 34403B, has been properly filled out and has been submitted to the local council office.' It does not guarantee that the shop selling the items will have access to the report that has been filed.

There are 3 scout shops in our council. One of them is in the council office building, but all three are run as divisions of BSA National. They are not part of the council. Even being in the same building, they have no access to council registration and advancement records.

The council to the south of me has a scoutshop in their main offices, and several smaller shops throughout the rural areas of Southern Utah. Some as much as 300 miles from the council office. Are you saying that these smaller shops that may not have easy access to the council records are not allowed to sell the restricted badges? You want the leaders to drive 600 miles every time they need another award for their troop?

In MRWs case, his scout shop IS checking the advancement report and comparing it to the purchased items. This is apparently not checked on every purchase, but frequently enough that buyers know they are likely to be checked. I don't know why you think it is his job to point out to them a rule they are already aware of and are following.

You asked 'how often a Scout is to be Trustworthy'? Isn't the answer that a scout is always Trustworthy? Since a scout is always trustworthy, why are you making such a big deal about the scoutshops having a different understanding of the rules than you? A trustworthy scout isn't going to wear (or buy) the badges that they are not entitled to.

[milominderbinder2]

scoutaholic,

We don't know your real name, so I can only call you by your pen name.

For every rule, there is always a way around it so you'll never get caught. And a dozen great reasons to break the rule.

If we teach our Scouts by our example that they can pick and choose which rules they follow, is that giving them the right to do the same?

As Bill Clinton said, "It depends on your definition of the word 'Is'."

Take care,

- Craig

[milominderbinder2]

Scoutaholic,

Out of all of this, ChiefJ gives what seems to me to be the most common sense of answers:

Our Scout shop will only sell advancement items (rank/merit badges/etc) in the following situations:

1) with an advancement report
2) with a copy of the pocket card showing the award was earned (This is how scouts/parents can purchase replacement/additional items earned)
3) with the Council approval certifying the award was earned. (This is accomplished by stopping at the Service Desk and having an employee look-up and document (write down) that it is ok for the person to purchase the item in question without #1 or #2 above.

Is it perfect No, can it be circumvented Yes, but it is the system in place and works pretty well.

Chief J

I am still left with the question, how does it help the Scout to not turn in an Advancement Report?

- Craig

[owl scouter]

If I may take this line of thought another way, lets all try and help the scout help himself. When my son crossed over to scouting in 1993 be gave him a gift of a photo album. He added photos as he went through scouting, but more important we made a game out of putting all the cards he received for rank, merit badges and such in the album too. Like any other habit, it took a little while for him to keep up with it, but in the end we had a record of all his accomplishment. As and Eagle with four palms, there were many. So the scout learns to keep good records, and every now and then I can pull them out and remember what he accomplished along the way.
I have also been a merit badge Counselor for many years. I can reach in a drawer as I sit here and type this and pull out 100s of little blue cards that are the one third of the blue cards that say Counselor's Record. I can not believe how many times counselors do not keep them, but give this portion of the card to the scout or just pitch it. I have multiple scouts call to see if I had a record and at least twice over the last 15 years I have had scouts going for Eagle call to say they lost their cards and the troop had no records. My pile of blue cards saved the day. One would not have had time to complete the badge again and would not have made Eagle.
I know this should be the scouts responsibility and to that see what I said above, but in the end it is good to be the back up to the back up.

John (Owl-Scouter)

[milominderbinder2]

Keeping your cards is great advice. It does not have to be expensive. Get a $1 binder and plastic baseball card pages from Walmart.

For $3 you could have every registration, merit badge, or other card in a safe place.

I also really like the idea of having real photos not just computer files. Computers crash and files get lost. It is 9 cents a photo to print them at Walmart.

- Craig

[pipestone1991]

I keep my cards wrapped up in a rubber band among other things (i.e. rank cards, cub scout cards)...and keep it in a small box with the rest of my boy scout stuff. Very cheap and works well.

[Chief J]

When my son crossed into Boy Scouts, we started keeping his cards in a binder in the baseball card pages. Works very well. When he went for his Eagle BOR, he took the binder with him and the District Rep on the board was able to get very comfortable with my sons accomplishments very quickly. Also made him look very organized and ready for his board.

I make it a point to show all new scouts and their parents how easy it is to do.

Finally, as I posted before, as my son has three scout shirts, it was easy to find his pocket card and purchase additional ranks from the Scout shop for him as needed.

But, if the Unit does not turn in an advancement report, there will in most cases be no record of the Scout earning the award, and in turn no pocket card, etc.

Chief J

[9009scoutmaster]

From and earlier post I stated I had a scout that I asked several times when he would be ready for his next advancement. I also stated that he advanced when he was ready. I have to say that this kid is very quite and not outspoken. Checking unit records he could have asked for a SMC & BOR in Oct. 2007. I did not ask him when did he want a SMC & BOR for star. He knew we had a BOR set up for several other youth and I was seting up SMC for them, he informed me that he was ready for his SMC for Star. It had been several month since I has last asked he when he would be ready for his next advancement.

The little shop I go to doesn't have Internet access or access to Scoutnet. So what I do is print 3 advancement report copies. (1) That is sent to main council office. (2) Troop copy. and (3) copy that small scout shop files in our unit file.

[milominderbinder2]

When my son crossed into Boy Scouts, we started keeping his cards in a binder in the baseball card pages. Works very well. When he went for his Eagle BOR, he took the binder with him and the District Rep on the board was able to get very comfortable with my sons accomplishments very quickly. Also made him look very organized and ready for his board.

I make it a point to show all new scouts and their parents how easy it is to do.
...
Chief J

A binder and the baseball card pages is under $2 at WalMart. What a great way to start a BOy Scout into the troop.

- Craig