Merit badge difficulty (old question, new twist)

[kwildman]

i still dont get how you can just bypass a rule. I have seen scouts stuck at second class because they cant pass the swimmers test.

[Fred Johnson]

Thanks for the responses to the original question! It makes me much more comfortable with the situation. I always felt I was doing something wrong with the Citizen of the Nation badge because it is so simple for so many scouts. I guess that's fine. Scouts need easy successes too. Other required badges are plenty difficult already.

i still dont get how you can just bypass a rule. I have seen scouts stuck at second class because they cant pass the swimmers test.

Not to digress further from the original question, but I can tell you how this happened with my 2nd son. He earned first class before he could swim. He was with a troop where the senior scouts signed off on requirements. Their troop guide who was also their patrol leader for the first six months (... sarcasm warning ...) because of course new scout patrols don't know anything about leadership and need someone else to do the job. The senior scout wasn't 100% interested in being there and often ditched the patrol to be with his friends, but he stuck around enough to mostly do the job.

At summer camp, the senior scout signed off on the swimming requirement for all the first year scouts. He didn't bother to check which scouts passed the swimmers test. I know that because I had been at the beach and seen my son's swimmers tag. It was coded as "beginner" meaning he didn't pass the swimmers test. (Tags can be non-swimmer, beginner/learner, swimmer). I asked my son but he can be rather spacey. I never got a full clear story of if he made the mistake or the troop guide did. I'm betting the troop guide didn't really care that much either way and when my son was spacey about it he signed off on the requirement.

Now, I've mentioned this on on-line discussion groups before. Scouters will suggest I should have laid a guilt trip on my son to get it unmarked and give up the advancement until he could pass. But in my view, that would be a second damaging mistake. The first was when he lost the opportunity at summer camp to work with beach staff and troop leaders to pass because he and the leaders thought it was done. Now he might not know about that he lost the opportunity, but denying him advancement or laying on guilt about it would be creating a negative experience to a situation where he and the troop leaders were expecting him to advance.

Another reason I didn't lay the guilt trip is that I believe the scouting program is about marching forward. When a requirement is not learned but it has been signed off as complete by an authorized signer, I believe the correct action is to let advancement go forward. Then, fix the troop to not have it happen again ... AND ... look for opportunities to work with the scout to teach the requirement even if the scout doesn't know you are teaching them a requirement.

When he got back from the camp, we went to the local YMCA and worked in the pool. Some swimming. Some games. Some throwing objects and us racing for them. Some diving for objects. He can pass the test now. But I'll never forget the original situation and he is in a different troop now.

And I'm all for making the swimming and life saving merit badges Eagle required. The current lifesaving alternative, Emergency prep badge, seems like it overlaps strongly with basic rank requirements and I'd like to see it made into just basic rank requirements. Or merge parts of it with the first aid merit badge.

[lifescoutforlife]

I understand the BSA program pretty well. And, I fully buy into not adding requirements; supporting the scout; and the Scout earns his advancement (in contrast to being judged and awarded recognition).

The problem recently for me is as a “Citizen of the Nation” merit badge counselor. With the great education our local scouts get in schools, this badge has always been pretty simple. Usually, the scouts have already explicitly talked about the topics in multiple grade levels and even taken the tours.

Well, a recent experience with one of our best scouts really started me thinking.

It was his last badge to earn Eagle. His project was done. He just needed the C.O.N. badge. He had received his blue card a year or two earlier the scoutmaster. He talked with me briefly at that time. Then, I didn't hear anything other than an occasional sentence from him that he'll be talking to me about it. This spring, he had a civics course in school. It allowed him to answer all the questions and he used the speech they discussed in class (Gettysburg Address). Also, he said he watched the news every day for the last week and normally watches the news anyway. He talked about the gulf oil spill. I trust him. If he said he did it, I'm betting he did. This is a very up-right scout. Also, the requirements don't say show proof that you watched the news or read the paper. Just explain.

So when I look back at the badge and the effort, the additional effort to complete BSA requirements was about 15 minutes for the letter and about 40 minutes to talk with me (two conversations, 10 minutes 1st time and 30 minutes 2nd time). Otherwise, everything else was already done through school or normal family life. The BSA requirements didn’t introduce him to anything new. Where's the challenge? Where's the growth?

Did I do something wrong? Should I have looked for more even though he explicitly fulfilled the BSA published requirements? Merit badges introduce subjects and are not to develop expertise or mastery of the subjects. This kid knew the C.O.N. stuff just fine. So, he did the requirements.

It just seems that a BSA Eagle required badge took little effort. It was almost an automatic badge. Worse yet, he learned little from the merit badge other than the experience of our talking. If he did learn anything, he learned how to plan things in sequence to minimize effort and maximize return. That itself is a valuable lesson that I keep re-learning. The last time was when my Woodbadge patrol mate finished his beads in three weeks and it took me the full 18 months. As the old Crusade knight said in Indiana Jones, "You choose poorly."

Is it just a matter that this scout choose (aka planned) wisely?

Every scout is different! That is what Boy Scouts is all about, letting each boy travel his own path through scouting. My son earned every merit badge and when asked by the Chief Scout Executive what was the hardest one his reply was " Dog Care" which made everyone laugh. Some badges come easy to some while other badges are harder for certain scouts, as long as the councilor is teaching by " nothing more / nothing less" that is all that matters. I would like to see a few badges be added to Eagle and a few removed but I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

[smtroop168]

One of the easist requirements

Not necessarily hard but does take some practice, especially if you've never done it before and you're in deep water. Some less than in shape kids have too work at it.

[Quailman]

That was the hardest one for my son, but he's a special case. Having CP, his legs don't bend as well as most boys' do, so it was a challenge to depants himself, even though he bobs like a cork when trying to float. Most boys seem to have an easy time with this requirement.

[Lynda J]

We actually had a MBC that refused to accept any thing done on a badge that was done at school. That person is no longer a MBC. If I am working with a boy on a badge and they do part of the requirements at school all I do is have him discuss what was done with me. I normally take less than 10 minutes for this exchange and give him credit.
Many times if you talk to teachers many of them are willing to become MBC's. Out Band Director is more than happy to work with boys on music.

[smtroop168]

We actually had a MBC that refused to accept any thing done on a badge that was done at school. That person is no longer a MBC. If I am working with a boy on a badge and they do part of the requirements at school all I do is have him discuss what was done with me. I normally take less than 10 minutes for this exchange and give him credit.
Many times if you talk to teachers many of them are willing to become MBC's. Out Band Director is more than happy to work with boys on music.

The Band Director is not Wagion is it.

[wagionvigil]

We actually had a MBC that refused to accept any thing done on a badge that was done at school. That person is no longer a MBC. If I am working with a boy on a badge and they do part of the requirements at school all I do is have him discuss what was done with me. I normally take less than 10 minutes for this exchange and give him credit.
Many times if you talk to teachers many of them are willing to become MBC's. Out Band Director is more than happy to work with boys on music.

The Band Director is not Wagion is it.

Did a lot of Music MB over the years. Lots of Partials on Music and Bugeling Just no Climbing Partials.