Reconvened BoR

[smtroop168]

Class A = Field uniform
Class B = Activity uniform (most use Troop T-shirts)

The uniform thing is just another area that drives leaders crazy. "we are a uniformed body" unless you don't want to be and you don't have to be

OBTW: BOR = Board of Review (not BOA Board of Advancement)

For Cowboy: If they miss the deadline, they don't go. If they apply for a campership, you are under no obligation to give them one. If he is disrespectful, hold a disciplinary BOR, give him standards to meet or he doesn't get rechartered. All these actions are within the authority of the Troop Committee and Chartered Organization.

[evmori]

A Scout is required to wear the uniform in the performance of his POR, i.e., PL, ASPL.

Where is this written down?

[wagionvigil]

It is not in BSA Policy Troop policy maybe which is not allowed

[Cowboy]

I know that the manual says that a Scout should be in as complete of uniform as possible. I find it disrespectful when the boy has had OFFICIAL pants for 3 months and has yet to wear them to ANYTHING Scout related. I find it disrespectful for a boy to come to not only a SMC and BoR but also the Court of Honor without the patches (that he received 3 months ago) on his shirt and in Blue Jeans. Everyone else, including the people who were BBQing the meal were in full uniform.

Regardless: My question was about correct BoR protocal. That has been answered. I will not continue to defend what was to those of us present a correct decision.

[smtroop168]

A Scout is required to wear the uniform in the performance of his POR, i.e., PL, ASPL.

Where is this written down?

Pretty sure it's not. Anyone ever seen the National BSA President wear a uniform for his POR?

[scoutaholic]

A Scout is required to wear the uniform in the performance of his POR, i.e., PL, ASPL.

Where is this written down?

Maybe in the list of responsibilities for the position? 'Be an example by wearing the full uniform'?

[smtroop168]

A Scout is required to wear the uniform in the performance of his POR, i.e., PL, ASPL.

Where is this written down?

Maybe in the list of responsibilities for the position? 'Be an example by wearing the full uniform'?

Official Policy

The Boy Scouts of America has always been a uniformed body. Its uniforms help to create a sense of belonging. They symbolize character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Wearing a uniform gives youth and adult members a sense of identification and commitment.

Personal equality. The uniform represents a democratic idea of equality; bringing people of different racial, economic, religious, national, ethnic, political, and geographical backgrounds together in the Scouting tradition.

Identification. The uniform identifies youth and adult members of the Boy Scouts of America, visible as a force for good in the community. When properly and smartly worn, the uniform can build good unit spirit. When worn on the correct occasions, it can attract new members.

Achievement. The uniform shows the wearer's activity, responsibility, and achievement. What each youth or adult member has accomplished with program opportunities can be recognized by the insignia worn on the uniform.

Personal commitment. The uniform is a constant reminder to all Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and adults of their commitment to the ideals and purpose of the Boy Scouts of America. The uniform encourages them to take Scouting seriously because of the investment in uniforms by parents of youths and by adults. The uniform is a way of making visible members' commitment to a belief in God, loyalty to country, and helping others at all times.

The leaders of Scouting—both volunteer and professional—promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions.

[wagionvigil]

Does not say wear the uniform says wear it correctly Which means if you wear a uniform you must wear it correctly not that you must wear it.

[smtroop168]

Does not say wear the uniform says wear it correctly Which means if you wear a uniform you must wear it correctly not that you must wear it.

Perfect National doublespeak.

[wagionvigil]

Does not say wear the uniform says wear it correctly Which means if you wear a uniform you must wear it correctly not that you must wear it.

Perfect National doublespeak.

I am right though

[smtroop168]

Does not say wear the uniform says wear it correctly Which means if you wear a uniform you must wear it correctly not that you must wear it.

Perfect National doublespeak.

I am right though

Yep...this wording needs to go under my Sash change to the Insignia Guide.

[FrankJ]

You cannot require the uniform for advancement. You can require it for activities or membership in the unit. National has no problem requiring them for jamborees. The unit is a partnership between the Charter org & BSA. Both can make requirements for membership in the unit. Please note that I am not suggesting that this is a good idea, but there is nothing in the 'rules' that say you cannot.

[RWSmith]

....committee member is not an uniformed position.

I figured somebody would jump on that. (But, this is not a "gotcha".) Is that the way it's played? Sure. Almost always.

Seriously, no offense... but... just where, exactly, is it specified that the committee member is the exception?

So you cannot really expect committee members to be in uniform.

Why not?

While I certainly agree that it is common practice for committee members to not wear the uniform, that does not make it a non-uniformed position...

• MC is a POR.
• MCs (CC/MC/COR) are just as much a part of the Troop as the Scouts and the ULs (SM/ASMs).
• The Insignia Guide, Uniform Inspection Sheets, handbooks/guides, make no differentiation wheresoever between ULs and MCs regarding the uniform.
• The uniform is addressed in the Troop Committee Guidebook (TCG), just like all the other handbooks/guidebooks; the TCG even shows all committee members pictured throughout wearing the uniform... not for marketing/PR purposes; but, because that's the way it's supposed to be.
• Whenever you are interacting with uniformed youth, and you are a registered adult serving in a POR, then you are also expected to be in uniform. Exception(s): MBCs, which are not paid registrations; and, maybe, ScoutParent Coordinator... initially, it was not; but, I can't find the current source on the SPC. (Sorry.)
• If you accept a POR, be it ASM or MC, then you need a uniform to put it on.

If you are having a TCM where no youth are present, then I can certainly understand not having to wear the uniform.

Is the system going to fail because MCs don't wear the uniform? -- Absolutely not.

But, my point is:

If you (a registered Scouter) EVER tell a Scout that he's not in proper uniform, then you'd better be in proper uniform yourself, first. Period. Even if you're a committee member who's sitting on the other side of the table at a BOR. Otherwise, you have no right.

That's just my interpretation of the aims and multi-sourced policies of wearing the uniform. Maybe it's right; maybe not. And, I am definitely willing to be convinced otherwise.

You cannot require the uniform for advancement.

The only times where the uniform comes into being required for a Scout is: 1) at the unit level, in the performance of his POR, if he has one; or, 2) at the national or international level (such events/cases are specially addressed, by National, in writing). Otherwise, the unit cannot require a Scout to wear the uniform.

You can require it for activities or membership in the unit.

No; you cannot. Not at the unit level. You cannot prevent a Scout from joining or participating should he choose not to wear it. Period. You can expect it; but, you cannot require it.

The unit is a partnership between the Charter org & BSA. Both can make requirements for membership in the unit. Please note that I am not suggesting that this is a good idea, but there is nothing in the 'rules' that say you cannot.

Actually, since the BSA rules specify only one instance (at the unit level) where you can apply the uniform standard to Scouts, then the CO cannot just go and make it blanket policy... not for youth members. (Note: Adults was covered above.) While you are right about it being a partnership, the CO agrees to operate the unit within (and not controvert) the policies set forth by the BSA. And since BSA sets the uniform standards, not the CO, and since BSA does not require the uniform for membership or participation, then neither can the CO. Period. Otherwise, if a CO could mandate the Scouts wear the uniform, then the CO could also throw the G2SS out the window.

While a Scout who chooses not to wear the uniform may not get very far in rank, or go to the NSJ, no unit can require him to wear the uniform. At least, not until BSA policy changes.

[RWSmith]

Anyone ever seen the National BSA President wear a uniform for his POR?

Yes. Well, I seem to recall one that did not.

[RWSmith]

A Scout is required to wear the uniform in the performance of his POR, i.e., PL, ASPL.

Where is this written down?

Let me rephrase... Wearing the uniform is one of the required duties of the POR. I've referenced this a couple of times (more correctly than the quote above) over the last couple of days, in various posts. So, that one would not be in my best context... Ed, man, I'm so sorry 'bout that.

So, that still does not mean the uniform is required; it just means that now it's one of your duties (as a Scout in a POR) in order to successfully fulfill your role in that POR, e.g., for advancement.

I saw it! I did! I really did!

I recall that it is a recent addition to all youth PORs; that it is official; and, I found it in an official lisiting of youth POR descriptions/responsibilities.

But, of course, MyScouting is down and Scouting.Org's internal search engine is down... So, I'm sorry.

I will find it and report back... I promise. (If I can't, I'll be eating crow... lots and lots of crow.)

========================

Example: NOW... if you are, say, the ASPL, and you're working towards fulfilling your POR requirement from Star to Life, and you're not properly wearing the uniform in the performance of your role as ASPL, then the SM can pull you from the position, for that reason. Whereas, before, he technically could not.

========================

Here's the most recent, "official" Patrol Leader's duties:

Your Duties as Patrol Leader

When you accepted the position of patrol leader, you agreed to provide service and leadership to your patrol and troop. No doubt you will take this responsibility seriously, but you will also find it fun and rewarding. As a patrol leader, you are expected to do the following:


• Plan and lead patrol meetings and activities.
  
• Keep patrol members informed.
• Assign each patrol member a specific duty.
• Represent your patrol at all patrol leaders' council meetings and the annual program planning conference.
• Prepare the patrol to participate in all troop activities.
• Work with other troop leaders to make the troop run well.
• Know the abilities of each patrol member.
• Set a good example.
• Wear the Scout uniform correctly. <-- Recent addition? (It didn't used to be there.)
• Live by the Scout Oath and Law.
• Show and develop patrol spirit.

There is a document, somewhere, that has them all together... all updated.

[evmori]

I found it in a Wiki, RW. That must be a recent addition. I don't remember seeing that before. Interesting in a way since there is no requirement to own a uniform to be a member of the BSA.

[wagionvigil]

It says wear it correctly not that you must wear it. SO in BSA double speak if you wear it you must wear it correctly but it does not say you must wear it

[FrankJ]

R. W, sez

I figured somebody would jump on that. (But, this is not a "gotcha".) Is that the way it's played? Sure. Almost always.

Seriously, no offense... but... just where, exactly, is it specified that the committee member is the exception?

I did not intend it as a gotcha.

Since BSA seems to want side step the issue of requiring uniforms in general, I doubt you will find anything in writing on it. (I think it is done to give the program some flexibility, not evil intent) But just looking at pictures in different pubs over the the years, some show the committee in uniform & some do not. Up until fairly recently you never saw a picture of a scout out of full uniform in an official pub. Committee is also generally a background position with some member never coming in direct contact with the youth.

As a side note, Our district round tables are considered to be uniformed events for everyone. (We still welcome the the slackerds though) District committee meetings are not.

[evmori]

It says wear it correctly not that you must wear it. SO in BSA double speak if you wear it you must wear it correctly but it does not say you must wear it

You make an excellent point, wagion.

[smtroop168]

It says wear it correctly not that you must wear it. SO in BSA double speak if you wear it you must wear it correctly but it does not say you must wear it

And of course my favorite picture is on the front cover of the Boy Scouts of America A Centennial History by Chuck Wills where the scout in the bottom left corner is wearing his MB sash over the wrong shoulder.