Envi Sci/Weather MB Improvement

[RWSmith]

....I definitely think people, young and old, need better critical thinking skills.

What? they don't teach that in school anymore? (Sorry for the momentary lapse and delving into outright sarcasm.)

[Mrw]

....I definitely think people, young and old, need better critical thinking skills.

What? they don't teach that in school anymore? (Sorry for the momentary lapse and delving into outright sarcasm.)

My complaint exactly! We have put quite an emphasis on teaching that at home and it has not often been appreciated by our sons!

[MDEagle]

....I definitely think people, young and old, need better critical thinking skills.

What? they don't teach that in school anymore? (Sorry for the momentary lapse and delving into outright sarcasm.)

My complaint exactly! We have put quite an emphasis on teaching that at home and it has not often been appreciated by our sons!

You know, I really held my tongue earlier, because I didn't want any of our Boy Scout posters to take offense... they're good young men, and don't want them to take any of this as an attack...

But, an example of what you're talking about is right on this thread. I wonder in what class did they watch Mr. Gore's movie? Was the movie presented as fact? Did they study any oppposing viewpoints? Did they watch another movie that disputed the first?

Perhaps the movie was "powerful" but so was "Star Wars." It doesn't mean that either is true.

I have no problem with the educational system, or even Scouting, exploring controversial topics. I have a big problem when educators use their positions to present/promote their personal beliefs, rather than equipping the students with the skills necessary to make up their own minds, taking into account all available evidence and opinion.

[Mrw]

MD, I agree completely again. That is where all those dinner time discussions came up - presenting the opposite viewpoint to what was presented in school as fact.

The period that galled me most was during our last teacher contract talks. The teachers were talking in class about how terrible it was that they were being asked to contribute to their health care premiums and pay co-pays on prescriptions. They were asking students to go home and tell their voting parents about how we should support their side.

My boys were pretty shocked to find out that the teachers were still being asked to contribute less than what most people have been paying for years. And they had not even thought about where the money comes from!

(Sorry about the thread hi-jack!)

[MDEagle]

(Sorry about the thread hi-jack!)

I'm sorry about hi-jacking the thread, too. I expect the mods to jump in any time and ban us! But, since we've already done it, I'll relay a story that I hope will point out to our young users why I feel this is so important.

A few years ago, a highly-touted Movie of the Week centered on the Noah story from the Bible. I quickly tuned it out, since the acting and plotline made it unwatchable right off the bat.

The next day, some co-workers were discussing the movie, and how they "had forgotten" about the naval battle that ensued between Noah in the Ark and Lot and his band of followers on a raft. This from ADULTS working for the Federal government.

They completely believed this was in the Bible, because it was in this movie. Never mind the fact that about the only thing Lot and Noah had in common was that they were both in the book of Genesis.

So, Scouts, don't believe everything you hear. Put those brains to work and do a little independent investigation... then make up your mind as to what you believe.

[Lynda J]

I think is many ways adults teach kids to believe what adults tell them.
I remember my dad telling me something and I questioned what he said.
Instead of telling me to "you do what I tell you" or "because I said so"
He set me down and we talked about what he had said. He had me look at both sides of the subject, and we talked about his point of view and mine. I finally did what he had ask me but I understood exactly why I had been ask to do it.
There were things that there was no discussion on. I have the same thing now with Kevin. But kids need to question and get answers.
There is a joke that goes like this

"When we have kids we spend the first two years teaching them to walk and talk and the next 18 years telling them to sit down and shut up."

[Mrw]

We spend a lot of time when we talk about things with our kids asking them to support WHY they think or feel something. And trying to make sure they can back up their assertions with something more than just emotions.

[optimist]

Actually, this is a good idea, if I get to change one little thing. I would have a requirement read

#. Global warming is a topic very much under debate in today's society, if you accept Global Warming, refute the argument against Global Warming using three scientific facts. If you do not beleive in Global Warming, state three scientific reasons which support your beliefs.

This would allow both sides to research and present arguments for their side. It would help develop critical thinking in the scout. Also required are counselors who would be able to critique arguments for both sides. Stating Global Warming is a fact because Al Gore and Sheryl Crow say it is would not be any more acceptable that saying GLobal Warming is a hoax because Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say so.

This argument has many sides, it may be a good idea to have the youth see what the facts are, and how yo go about discerning fact

When I was in high school (just after the ice age), my Economics teacher put thirty subjects up on the board and said "Everyone is going to have to give a five minute speech on one of these topics... Who wants to choose first?" I ended up with Socialism.

I was devastated. I couldn't think of a more boring subject. At least there was something romantic about Communism... well, there was if you watched the cute Russian spy on Hogan's Heroes

So I started reading about Socialism. That was the first I knew that Britain was becoming/had become a socialist state. These guys were our staunchest allies and they were socialists. I read about other European attempts at socialism and about our own country's slow slide down the socialistic path and was totally enthralled.

Nothing in the above ever changed my opinion on the value of the Socialist movement (I'm a card carrying Libertarian) but it certainly showed my why that system of governing has its believers. Unlike many in the class who barely gave 2-3 minute speeches, the teacher had to shut me up after 35 minutes. The other students actually raised their hands to ask me questions

While it's always true that learning about the other side of the coin may result in your switching sides, I know that learning about alternative viewpoints can also be a very valuable and reaffirming experience. There is no debate aspect built into any requirements for Public Speaking, Communication, or any other merit badge. Maybe there should be.

That having been said, wrapping such a requirement around a subject as controversial as global warming may not be the best idea in the world...

[scouter01]

I like how you put it as wrapping.

I agree with this, since should we add every new current event to evey meritbadge?

probably not.

[RWSmith]

Mrw... Bad user! There. How's that?

MDEagle... Bad user! There. How's that?

[Mrw]

Mrw... Bad user! There. How's that?

MDEagle... Bad user! There. How's that?

I have been properly chastised now!

[hector]

Taking these recent comments into perspective, I did a little more research on the side against global warming, and I found this...

While many professionals disagree with many of the claims of the pro-global warming side, few to none of the sources actually stated that global warming does not exist. And the ones who do use sources of outdated information (circa 1997).

If anybody finds material contradicting my above point, please correspond with me. I would love to find out more about the argument.

Furthermore, global warming is already mentioned in the weather (and I think environmental science) merit badge books. Though it isn't talked about in great detail, it is in there. Saying it shouldn't be is sort of a moot point. It's already happened. Saying that the section should be expanded is debatable.

I like how you put it as wrapping.

I agree with this, since should we add every new current event to evey meritbadge?

probably not.

With all due respect, I completely disagree with that statement. It's failure to pay attention to current events that contributes to ignorance of the world around a person. Just because an event or opinion is disputed doesn't mean you need to ignore it.

Also, global warming is not just another "new current event". It's been around for a while and the 'movement' is gaining momentum.

--------
While I must agree that the effects of global warming are not able to be accurately forecasted and predicted right now, I can't bring myself to say that global warming doesn't exist. I haven't found any credible evidence saying that it's a myth.

Once again, please send something to me if you have something.

[OldGreyBear]

I remember in the 70's being told we were headed to another Ice Age, that indeed, the earth was never out of THE ICE AGE and all of human history was merely a respite in the Ice Age. Now, 30-40 years later I am told we are at the brink of an irreversible global warming era and I havent heard a word of why 40 years ago, a mere twinkling of an eye in geological terms, our civilization was headed towards a frozen end.

Now, I am not saying that as Stewards of the Earth, that Conservation is unnecessary, I want beautiful green spaces, I want my Country to be energy independent and want to assure a standard of living for my granchildren I would want. But to advocate that unless I start to count my squares, because we wont have a "square to spare" otherwise I echo a fellow pollack, "And do you know what I say? Ha ha! Do you hear me? Ha ha ha!"

[FrankJ]

I do not think the disagreement is about whether global warming exists. The argument is how much is man made & rather it is a good or bad thing. The climate is constantly changing. How much humans can or should do to control it is an open question, at least in my mind.

On the other hand a scout is thrifty. This would include working to conserve natural resources.

The amount of science required to begin to understand the issue goes way beyond the scope of a merit badge.

[scouter01]

i said that they sholdn'tput current events in because they only change the mb's once a year max, and some haven't been changed for years. in fact the computer merit badge proves my point. computers and technology are advancing way faster tha the bsa is updating it, so when I went to take a computer mb class, many of the things we ;earned were
1) pretty old & 2) stuff we learned before 4th grade, which shouldn't really happen.

[scoutaholic]

...the computer merit badge proves my point. computers and technology are advancing way faster tha the bsa is updating it, so when I went to take a computer mb class, many of the things we ;earned were 1) pretty old & 2) stuff we learned before 4th grade, which shouldn't really happen.

I don't know when you took your class, but the requirements were rewritten in 2005 (mid year, but not in the requirements book until January 2006). Prior to that rewrite, they hadn't been changed since 1993.

I think when I earned it (in the dark ages), they hadn't been changed in about 30 years. I've always been somewhat of a computer geek, and I recognized several things in the requirements then that were irrelevant to the 'modern' world of computers.

[MDEagle]

While many professionals disagree with many of the claims of the pro-global warming side, few to none of the sources actually stated that global warming does not exist. And the ones who do use sources of outdated information (circa 1997).

If anybody finds material contradicting my above point, please correspond with me. I would love to find out more about the argument.

I went to Wikipedia under "Scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming." While I didn't read their papers in detail, I immediately found:

There is one (recently published) who says we are back in a cooling trend, many who think global warming exists but dispute any manmade causes, many who think it exists but don't know why and won't hazard a guess, and at least one who thinks it exists but will have beneficial consequences.

Because the scientific evidence and opinion is inconclusive, I don't know whether global warming exists or not (or its causes if it does), so my objective is not to prove that it doesn't. I simply state that I'm not going to sign on to a particular scientific assessment because it is the fashion among rock stars and politicians.

Like every good Scout and Scouter, I am concerned about the protection of our environment. I want the natural blessings that have been granted to me to be availalbe to my grandchildren. But, I also want to do things that make sense.

I believe that Scouts do concrete good for the environment in the form of preservation projects, trash pickups, and so forth. I contrast this with the actions of many of the media darlings who live in energy-wasting mansions and jet around the country in private planes urging the "little people" to do more by driving hybrid automobiles.

BTW, one of my favorite celebrity activists is Bette Midler, who was concerned about the trash on the streets in NYC. So she did something about it by organizing volunteer clean-up crews. And she was right in the middle of things, wearing her work gloves and old clothes, sweating right along side the common man. Good for her. I suspect I wouldn't agree with the bulk of her political views, but she is doing something about the problem she saw, other than running her mouth.

[riverwalk]

In light of the atmosphere of controversy on this, the suggestions made are sensible. Having Subject related requirements that encourage Scouts to research, think, and observe policy makers is educational.

It simply needs to advance the knowledge gained from the Badge work, and not get into any specific person's view or commentary. To do so would really warm things up around here pardner.

[scouter01]

maybe a additin that says to include current events.

[hector]

Here's a suggestion:

In the Envi Sci merit badge, requirement three asks students to do one activity in each of 6 different environmental science fields. There are three activity choices in each field. A choice for an activity in the ecology section involving climate change would read like something close to this:

A. Ecology...
4. Explain the effects that long term climate change can have on living things and the surrounding environment. Research records of previous global climactic changes, and discuss your findings with your counselor.

This doesn't imply any controversy at all, and covers a topic that is important to ecology, but is not currently addressed in the merit badge.

Because the scientific evidence and opinion is inconclusive, I don't know whether global warming exists or not (or its causes if it does), so my objective is not to prove that it doesn't. I simply state that I'm not going to sign on to a particular scientific assessment because it is the fashion among rock stars and politicians.

...and a majority of credible scientists. But that's beside the point.

Like every good Scout and Scouter, I am concerned about the protection of our environment. I want the natural blessings that have been granted to me to be availalbe to my grandchildren. But, I also want to do things that make sense.

I believe that Scouts do concrete good for the environment in the form of preservation projects, trash pickups, and so forth. I contrast this with the actions of many of the media darlings who live in energy-wasting mansions and jet around the country in private planes urging the "little people" to do more by driving hybrid automobiles.

I agree with you completely there. It kinda reminds you of the South Park "Smug" episode. It also makes me wonder why they don't have a "conservation project" option for the envi sci merit badge. (I didn't say a requirement, only an option...)


All I'm saying is this: Global climate change happens. That is fact. There is evidence. Whether it is happening now, well that's up to you.

The fact that there is nothing specifically about climate change in the merit badge sort of surprises me. There should be something about it, as it is an important aspect of environmental science.