Using Merit Badge Pamplets

[maricopasem]

so if someone dont need to read the book to teach because he is a lawyer then I dont want him to try to defend me only on what he remembers with no research.

Are you serious? I can't believe you would suggest that he is unqualified as a MB counselor or as an attorney because he hasn't read a book on the law written for a 5th grader. It's what he does, it's what he studies and works on 60 hours a week.

The man has the requirements and he counsels the boys based on exactly what the requirements say. How can that be "more or less?" To require them to read the book is more than the outlined requirements.

But perhaps you're right. Perhaps he is unqualified as a counselor because he hasn't read the book. And perhaps his internationally renowned law firm should not allow him to become a partner next year because he didn't "expand his learning level" enough in this regard.

[FrankJ]

The man has the requirements and he counsels the boys based on exactly what the requirements say. How can that be "more or less?" To require them to read the book is more than the outlined requirements.

This site is full of discussion of what different requirements mean. Lawyers can quibble other the definition of is. (sorry) Having read the merit badge book can help determine the detail expected. Otherwise an expert can either expect too much or too little from the scout.

For example: What is in an atom? A physicist and a 6th grader will give you two different answers, and they both would be right.

BTW I am not suggesting your lawyer friend or any one else is unqualified to teach a merit badge.

[maricopasem]

For example: What is in an atom? A physicist and a 6th grader will give you two different answers, and they both would be right.

The whole "truth is relative" thing is a scary can of worms to open.

[FrankJ]

The whole "truth is relative" thing is a scary can of worms to open.

True. It would be nice if everthing was black & white, but it is not. One of the greatest life skills is how to walk a straight path in in a world full of shades of gray. I think the scouting program does a good job of teaching this. Even to us older scouters.

Sorrry I seemed to have wandered off topic.

[maricopasem]

Sorrry I seemed to have wandered off topic.

No, I think that was probably my fault.

I suppose I'm just having a hard time with this line of reasoning. Case in point:

what do you do if a child comes to you and says that you are teaching something wrong because the way you are doing it is different than in the merit badge book?

Things are what they are. For example, a professor of Political Science shouldn't have to read the Cit. Nation MB book to counsel a boy on the six functions of government in the Preamble. That doesn't make sense. If he or she knows it, they know it. Don't patronize them with bureaucratic hoops through which to jump.

[cballman]

ok to try to explain my take on this. you have a trained professional trying to teach first aid. they teach the first aid merit badge as if they were trying to have a paramedic class. the same way you are trying to teach the law merit badge to basicaly middle to high school kids not adults who are going to school to be lawyers. now you might have the perfect person to teach the badge and they might be the best MBC ever for that badge but what I was trying to get across is that we are trying to teach kids that have shown interest in a merit badge, not adults making this a career. now you stop and look at another thing when I earned my First aid merit badge a few years ago there was no CPR. when I taught it a few years later there was still no CPR. but now the req basiclly reads show the methods of CPR on a training device. now where in that req. requires a certification class or card. now if we make a child go through that class to get a card then we have just broke on of the first rules of a MBC. do not add to or take away from the req. in my opinion to first fully understand how the BSA has stated in the written req. what is wanted or needed for a merit badge then you must read the book. now just remember that is MY opinion and if anyone differs than I understand. but there are some things that you just cant find in any other books. so I still beleive that both child and MBC should read and have working knowledge of the book. but still in some cases if that is your profession then the MBC should be the on to make that call as long as the req. are met and not exceded.

[FrankJ]

I have to admit it is possible to teach a merit badge without having read the merit badge book. I suppose it is possible to teach a middle school class without ever looking at the text the students are supposed to use. After all the teacher has spent years in prepraration and knows the material. In general I think it is better to have read the book. If you already know the the material, it takes all of 15-20 minutes.

[616kayak]

A textbook is used during the instruction phase. A merit badge book is not always used during the instruction phase.

The merit badge book is designed to become familiar with the merit badge.

If you are a professional at whatever the mb is then I see no reason to use a book designed to familiarize yourself with something that you are already familiar with. But, if you have never taught the subject then you should read it to familiarize yourself with teaching it.

[WVBeaver05]

Well, here are my thoughts on this subject. I would never counsel a merit badge without reading the MB pamphlet. I expect Scouts that I am counselling to read the pamphlet. I would not object to the first requirement being to read the pamphlet.

Now, can I defend those positions?

I expect Scouts to read the pamphlet, but since I can't add or subtract from the requirements, I can't require it. But, I believe that there is valuable information and insight to be gained from reading it, so making it a requirment would be OK with me.

There are many subjects that I am both qualified and competent to teach and consel. I consider the minimal time that it takes me to read the pamphlet to well spent and useful. Do I usually learn anything new -- nope. But do I understand the context of the requirements better and I know what the Scouts should have as background. Further, if there are errors, out dated material, or areas for discussion I am aware of them and prepared.

As a professional in some of the areas that I consel, it does not bother or offend me to read the pamphlet, nor do I see why it should for others. Likewise, I do not object to the requirement that I be registered as a Merit Badge Conselor.

For the Scouts, as I said, I can't require that they read or even obtain the pamphlet. But what I can do (and have done) is ask if they have read the section on something that they are asking about. For instance. A Scout came to me and said, "... you need to help me with this requirement about a family council since I don't know what it is...". Having read the pamphlet I knew it was in there. So, while I did help him the next week to understand what the family council was, I would not until he had read it.

I could go on and on, but these are my positions -- and, of course, I "think" they are the right ones. Just as I am sure that those of you who disagree "think/know" that mine are wrong and yours are right. So, aren't we all glad that we live in a society and belong to an organization where we can express different opinions, reason with others of a different mind, and all learn from everything that is posted!

Let's keep striving to help Scouting be "...fun with a purpose..."!!

YiS

[mhjacobson]

Thre are scouts and there are other scouts. While I do not agree with requiring scouts to have the MB and to have read the MB, I have found that as a MB counselor, most scouts will have a hard time completing a MB without the assistance of the MB pamphlet. Saying this, I have also found that many scouts only need the requirements and they are able to research down the answers using the internet. In fact that are some MB (nuclear science) where some of the answers can only be obtained through an internet search.

[mom4-2eaglescouts]

What do you do when a MBC makes a mistake for a requirement of an Eagle Required badge over a period of time and finally it gets revealed? Who do you go to? What if the counselor won't listen and continues to do it their way anyway? Who is the authority to get the counselor straight?

[wagionvigil]

Merit Badge Counselors are approved by your district and there "should" be a Merit Badge Dean. After that you talk to the District Executive and then The Council Service Center. All Counselors are to adhere to the requirements and not add any.
How about some details?

[mhjacobson]

I note that the discussion went from asking if a SCOUT should be required to read the MB to whether or not the MB COUNSELOR should read the MB pamphlet. Here where there are two answers, and one of the two answers reflect upon upon the who rather than the what:

1. Requiring that a SCOUT has read the pamplet -- not a requirement from BSA and should not be a requirement;

2. Should a MB COUNSELOR have read the pamphlet -- definitely, and in fact, the MB Counselor should have a current copy of the MB pamphlet available when working with a scout. The reasons for this are obvious:

a. This makes sure that the MB counselor is using the current requirements
b. This is the way that when there is a disagreement over whether or not the requirement has been satisfactorily met, the disagreement can be solved (the answer in the book is the BSA answer if the counselor is not sure)
c. It is good leadership (how can we expect scouts to understand the value of the MB pamphlets when we do not have a copy ourselves)

As I have stated in a prior post, it is best practice for a scout to have read the MB pamphlet, and it should be best practice for the MB to not only have read the current edition of the pamphlet, but to have a copy on hand as well.

[wagionvigil]

I am hoping that one day soon the first requirement for All Merit Badges will be Read the Pamphlet.

[RMM]

I am hoping that one day soon the first requirement for All Merit Badges will be Read the Pamphlet.

I agree, also the forms for the MBC have a statement that the MBC has read the MB Pamphlet.

[mommatoodle]

my one son reads the book. he has no trouble understanding it, my youngest son struggles with reading comprehension and has an iep because of a nuerological disability. he spends so much time trying to figure out the words that by the time he gets thru anything significant he has no understanding of what he just read. he is not a stupid kid. if the material is read to him or someone explains things he gets it...

[cballman]

well momma the way that I see that is if someone read the book to your son and he understands it then to me he has read the book.

[Lynda J]

I went back and reread some of the comments on this subject. I still think anyone counseling a badge should have the guts to sit down and read the book. It brings back memories of a guy that came into our shop to apply for a mechanics job. One of the guys working for us was looking at one of the tech books on a car he was working on. The applicant looked at the other mechanic and commented "You mean he still has to look at the books, It's a waste of time once you have been a mechanic more than 5 years." My husband handed him he resume back and said we weren't interested. Things change in every field. If we all remember years ago you did the thump in CPR. We don't do it any more. Once upon a time you cut a snake bite and sucked out the poison. Things change in law, medicine, science, in almost every field out there. IMHO if someone thinks that reading a lowely Boy Scout Merit Badge Pamphlet is below them, I don't want that person teaching my boys.
My Gran use to say that we should live each day in a quest to learn. To expand our knowledge even in the smallest way is to strive to reach our full potential.

I agree with cball. If you son understood the information and can work within the requirements that is all it takes. I mean we have Scouts that are sight impaired we allow someone to read them the requirements.

[Craft Lady]

Lynda-- What good points. I can't believe that guy tried to get a job that way. For one anyone that is that sure of everything, he is likley to do things wrong occasionally because he is to sure of his choice he won't pay attention if it turns out he is wrong.

I know when I worked on laptops I got in a bad habit of not checking the updates to the repair documentation once I knew what I needed to do on a model. Well there was one issue with one style of IBM laptop that was a known issue. It was such a problem that every time I had a laptop under warrenty on the bench with LCD problems the first thing I checked was this problem. Well they changed the part number on me for a certain part. So I had to check the online updates to the repair documentation. There was a note that because this was such a frequent issue that IBM was paying for the replacement of this part on all laptops that were in for in warranty repair for any issue, all I had to do was order the part. (Plus my company would get paid for 2 hours of my time under the warranty contract and it was a part that took 20 minutes to change..) For 2 months if I had checked the documentation when they emailed me there was an update, I could have fixed a part that would likley be a problem in the future for any of the laptops that crossed my work bench. After that any time I got an email that there was an update, I checked it.

You are right things change.


I also agree for the boy with problems reading that if it is read to him that counts. My son has dyslexia and dysgraphia. I make him try to read it first, because sometimes with lots of work, he suprises us. That is rare, so I make sure that someone reads the book to him if he has trouble. He can normally make it through the requirments because they are short. His dyslexia causes him to mostly spend so much energy trying to decode what is on the page that by the time he gets to the end of the page he forgot what he read at the start of the page. However with requirements he can muddle through a sentence or two.

To accomdate his dysgraphia he uses a computer for anything he has to write. Some of the MBCs in the troop "prefer" the worksheets for the "write" requirments. So I taught him to just type in the worksheet. I figure they have 2 choices, he can type it out or they can deal with handwriting so horrid he can't read it.

Jennifer

[MDEagle]

I just completed counseling for a merit badge for 10 boys. When I was asked to set the sessions up, I told the boys that I would expect them to be prepared for discussions (when the requirement says "Discuss...") and, in fact to lead the discussions.

I told them that the best way to prepare for discussion of a requirement was to read the relevant section in the merit badge book, and that I would personally buy a book for any Scout that couldn't afford one.

No one took me up on that offer, but they all had a book. It provided them with a much richer experience, and several boys mentioned afterwards how much they enjoyed the badge (and it was an academic-type badge, not a fun crafty one).

During the course of counseling that badge, it became apparent that many boys had not used a phamplet before, and had no idea that most of the requirements were covered right there.

Too often, I've seen MB sessions where the counselor lectures and provides all the answers... if the boy can stay awake, then he's "earned" the signature.