Troop MB Books on CD

[StoutScout]

Hi,
I've seen some of the discussions regarding online versions of the MB books (status?), but rather than waiting i was wondering what's possible within our troop to make the process work better. Has anyone looked into scanning their collection of MB books and distributing their library to the troop as CDs? I'm sure we share all the same headaches managing the library now as is, and certainly getting new versions and scanning them all would be no small deal, but it seems viable. My understanding of the Fair Use Doctrine of Copyright Law (NOT a lawyer), suggests that this approach is OK. Any ideas?

[kwildman]

Fair use doctrine is for personal use. Scanning the documents in their entirety and distributing them within your troop would be blatant violation of copyright. A scout is.....

[smtroop168]

Try this:

http://www.meritbadgeonline.com/

[RWSmith]

<snip> [kwildman,] What I asked is of books we (the troop) own (physically) of which we are licensed to use via copyright. My perception of FUD applied to material already owned in one format and reformated for use in another (e.g. CDs you've bought and ripped as MP3s), and thus my inquiry. Perhaps you misconstrue my use of the word 'distribute' which did NOT mean give away freely to whomever within the troop or otherwise. Think instead of a library (you know like a library library) where the digital copy (tied to the CD?) is used by one patron at a time. Hope that clarifies (and I didn't mean to sound gruff).

[Eaglewarr7]

FYI, MB on line has been shutdown for copywrite violations by BSA.

[kwildman]

Sometimes I hate being right... Very interesting correspondence between BSA and the site operator.

Easiest solution is to have scouts donate their old books to the library. This gives the librarian something to do. No problems with lending an official copy of the book. Kids spend enough time in front of the screen. Reading a book will do them good.

[Fred Johnson]

I read the correspondance also at that site. Fun reading. I fully sympathize with the site even though BSA is legally correct with the copyrights. Trademark? Not sure, but it was a fun read.

The only saving grace I see is ... at least with Merit Badge booklets ... I haven't seen a scout use a MB booklet for years. When I've been in the scout store, I've bought a few for my sons when I knew they would be working on a badge. But I doubt if they ever even picked up the book. Right now, I think the book is most useful to the counselors to know what BSA intends for the badge to cover.

[Mrw]

I have seen our boys with MB pamphlets and know that at least some of them do read the booklets.

I just took a look at the above link. I find it curious that they are encouraging people to help them get all the MB requirements up on their Wiki so that it is availbale to people. I do not really understand why they are trying to reinvent the wheel when there are already similar sites up and running....

[wagionvigil]

I have seen our boys with MB pamphlets and know that at least some of them do read the booklets.

I just took a look at the above link. I find it curious that they are encouraging people to help them get all the MB requirements up on their Wiki so that it is availbale to people. I do not really understand why they are trying to reinvent the wheel when there are already similar sites up and running....

They actually had complete copies of the Books on there not just the requirements. IMHO the first requirement for each MB should be Read the MB Pamphlet!

[kwildman]

i have made my sons read the books. I encourage the scouts i work with to read them as well. The biggest problem with the merit badge worksheets is that the scouts feel they can write a one line answer on the worksheet and get credit for it. Worksheets are to be an aid to the MB not to replace the actual learning.

[RWSmith]

IMHO the first requirement for each MB should be Read the MB Pamphlet!

WE HAVE A WINNER!

[smtroop168]

IMHO the first requirement for each MB should be Read the MB Pamphlet!

WE HAVE A WINNER!

I don't disagree but the issue is whether the scout has to buy a MBP as required in the Service Hour Thread to get his MB approved by the SM.

The new book is moot on the worksheets because they are "unofficial" but does link to the MBC training which does say:

"The counselor suggests that the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet"

[RWSmith]

I agree! 100%!

National covers a very large portion of its operating expenses from the sale of national pubs, especially MBPs; but, they have never required it be purchased by the Scout, let alone anyone else -- and, IMHO, they never will... and I'm okay with that.

That said, while there is no requirement upon the Scout to "read" the MBP, even if there were, that does mean he has to "buy" one in order to do so. There's no excuse for a Troop to not have some kind of MBP library, where its Scouts can check them out, as needed.

Frankly, I think that if National were to make it a requirement for the Scout to "read" (not buy, just merely read) the MBP, the lawn darts accusing National of unethically attempting to line its pockets would certainly fly from within and without the Scouting community... and unfortunately, rightly so. I do not doubt for one second that National has not mulled over this issue for some years now. But, is it what it is, and it works. Suggest, encourage, what ever... just anything short of require.

If anybody should be required to obtain, possess, retain -and- have read the MBP, it should the MBC... that alone would solve a lot of "problems".

[smtroop168]

If anybody should be required to obtain, possess, retain -and- have read the MBP, it should the MBC... that alone would solve a lot of "problems".

My 1943 Merit Badge Counselor Guide under the A COUNSELOR IS PREPARED section says that a MBC will need to have the MBP. It says "so that you can be familiar with what the Scout is required to know".

You wonder why wording such as this as vanished over time.

[razor_strop]

If anybody should be required to obtain, possess, retain -and- have read the MBP, it should the MBC... that alone would solve a lot of "problems".

Excellent point! I own MBPs for every MB I counsel, and if the Scout doesn't have a copy of the pamphlet I show him how the "answers" to nearly all the 'explain', 'discuss' etc. requirements are right in the pamphlet text. Then I offer to loan him my pamphlet for a week or two. If I counsel that Scout on another MB later on, he generally has already found a copy of the pamphlet and read at least parts of the it.

[cballman]

In a perfect world everyone should be able to buy, read the Merit badge phamplet. Do I insist that everyone have one? NO but I do own them why? It makes teaching 100% easier. Now about worksheets, Do I tell a youngman they need them? NO BUT they do help keep items in a orderly manner to help the young man out. I just wish that they would have had them when I was a young man. Gosh gee wilikers I would have earned many more merit badges had I had the resourses that we offer our children today. Some merit badges are easier using the worksheets but some are not like swimming or lifesaving. Hard to keep those papers dry when you are doing the water activies Just a jokewith the water.

[Fred Johnson]

IMHO the first requirement for each MB should be Read the MB Pamphlet!

With utmost respect for your knowledge, experience and contributions, I very much disagree with this. Some scouts learn by reading. Good for them. Give them the book. Some of those scouts don't even need a counselor. They just need an authorized signature. Fine.

But IMHO, scouting is about doing. Getting outside. Working with others. Adult interaction. Scouting is not school! That's one reason I cringe when I see the MB worksheets. (which can be useful ... I just fear the counselor will create a classroom course.) Plus, one thing that I like about scouts is that it's a place that young men can succeed even if they are poor book learners.

When I think about the many MB's my sons have earned and those that I've taught, the best have been those where they've done things. Scouts (like everyone) zone out and turn into space cadets with badges that are mostly book taught, PowerPoint slideshows or require filling out a MB sheet. The best have been sitting on tree stumps tying fishing knots. Standing in shallow water examining canoe parts. Learning first aid by treating a practice victim. Sitting in a state capital stairwell or by a tree at camp taking about citizenship.

If anybody should be required to obtain, possess, retain -and- have read the MBP, it should the MBC... that alone would solve a lot of "problems".

I absolutely agree with this. I'd substitute "review" instead of read. In our troop, the first aid merit badge is taught by an EMT/firefighter and also by a pediatric physician. For them, "reading" would be a waste of time. Reviewing for what should be covered is enough. I counsel the computer MB and been a software developer for 25+ years. I chuckled when I read the MB pamphlet.

[wagionvigil]

But Fred The scouts need a basic understanding of the MB they are going to take. When A kid comes to me for Climbing I expect them to have some knowledge of the subject. More than Climbing goes up and Rappelling goes down. The MBP gives the scout that basic understanding.

[Fred Johnson]

... The scouts need a basic understanding of the MB they are going to take. When A kid comes to me for Climbing I expect them to have some knowledge of the subject. More than Climbing goes up and Rappelling goes down. The MBP gives the scout that basic understanding.

This might be a difference in method / style. I view the MB purpose to teach that basic understanding and develop interest / enthusiasm in the topic. No pre-enlightenment required. I view the counselor's job to be determining if the requirements are met and more importantly teaching that basic understanding as needed. Perhaps, telling the scout to read the MBP is the solution. I just prefer the person-to-person.

[FrankJ]

It is reasonable to expect the scout to be prepared. A good way to be prepared is to read the merit badge book. The text of the merit badge book also tells both the councilor & the scout what level of detail to apply to the requirement. If a scout comes to me & is clearly prepared & knows his stuff, the merit badge book might never come up. If the scout unprepared & does not know the material, I might well send him off to read the merit badge book as a way of being prepared. He might well choose other options & as long as he meets the requirements I do not really care that much.