Adding Whitewater Rafts to Whitewater Merit Badge

[DBdonuts]

Our troop is planning a whitewater rafting trip in Colorado. We just found out that the Whitewater Merit Badge does NOT include rafts - only canoes and kayaks. We have tried to get into Innovation Station to ask the National Headquarters to include rafts but it says only BSA employees can log into it. Can anyone help get this to National Headquarters? Does anyone know if the Whitewater Merit Badge is in the process of being fixed right now? With whitewater rafting on the cover of Boy's Life this month it seems to be pretty extreme and a great choice for a merit badge. Thanks!

[wagionvigil]

Our troop is planning a whitewater rafting trip in Colorado. We just found out that the Whitewater Merit Badge does NOT include rafts - only canoes and kayaks. We have tried to get into Innovation Station to ask the National Headquarters to include rafts but it says only BSA employees can log into it. Can anyone help get this to National Headquarters? Does anyone know if the Whitewater Merit Badge is in the process of being fixed right now? With whitewater rafting on the cover of Boy's Life this month it seems to be pretty extreme and a great choice for a merit badge. Thanks!

I live in a whitewater area and leaders have asked the same thing. but I will say a raft is not an individual boat it is always for two or more. The WW MB is set up for a Kayak or a WW canoe(this is a one person boat) that is my answer. SO that is the reason rafts are not permitted.

I was a river guide for several years so I do speak from experience

[smtroop168]

The National Advancement Team reviews all merit badges periodically to improve relevance, consistency, and requirement and content accuracy. You can send suggestions to merit.badge@scouting.org.

OBTW..Welcome to the forum.

[AquilaNegra2]

After shelling out the $ for kayaking lessons and (non-sea) trips for #1 and #2, I sincerely hope they DON'T allow the rafts -- that doesn't require skill because it often relies on the guide or other paddlers. Heading down a rocky river in your own kayak takes a lot of skill to maneuver; sitting in a raft is fun, but not necessarily a skill.

[wagionvigil]

We have a winner. Someone else that gets that Raft thing. On the Yough in PA. Wildeerness Voyaguers offers WW MB and they supply kayaks and Canoes. The Basic skills are learned on a huge lake then the scouts prove those skills on the Middle Yough an 11 mile stretch of fantastic water to learn on.
When you are on a raft you are just decoration in most cases there are a couple of rafts that do take some skil one is the Shredder which is a locally made two or 4 person ponton raft that a single rider can handle my themselves.
Allowing rafts would be like allowing a scout to wear a PFD to take swimming MB.

[smtroop168]

Allowing rafts would be like allowing a scout to wear a PFD to take swimming MB.

Or have someone belay them when taking Climbing.

[wagionvigil]

Allowing rafts would be like allowing a scout to wear a PFD to take swimming MB.

Or have someone belay them when taking Climbing.

actually Matt Allowing Auto Belay devices would also be in this area of concern

[smtroop168]

Allowing rafts would be like allowing a scout to wear a PFD to take swimming MB.

Or have someone belay them when taking Climbing.

actually Matt Allowing Auto Belay devices would also be in this area of concern

Maybe I shoulda said...using ropes for Climbing!!! Happy Memorial Day.

[smtroop168]

From my National POC: The Whitewater merit badge pamphlet specifically identifies the following properly equipped whitewater crafts: tandem canoe, solo canoe, or solo kayak in fulfilling requirements. No mention is made to the use of a whitewater raft. Since references to certain watercraft is made and it does not include rafts they are not allowed. Had there been NO mention of different watercraft then National would had left open the possibility of a raft.

[Customwebprogrammer]

I agree that rafting as a tourist shouldn't get you a merit badge. However, I noticed this in the BSA Summer Camp training manual (photo below): "This requirement may be completed using kayaks or rafts as well as canoes." Need to fix this inconsistency, or develop guidelines for how to apply.
Certainly a well-organized and executed whitewater rafting trip would be an exciting addition to the merit badge or high-adventure experience.

WhitewaterRaft.jpg (65.67 KiB) Viewed 36786 times

Source: the National BSA training manual for Aquatic Directors/Waterfront Staff.

[AquilaNegra2]

Is that an official document, CWP? Or something the camp had made up? On a whitewater rafting trip, the boys don't do the actual steering. Part of this badge is the trial and error in steering the craft. I would hate to see it watered down to taking a rafting trip that someone else had designed, set up the equipment for, and steered down a river.

[smtroop168]

The only official publication for current merit badge requirements is the Annual Boy Scout Requirements book. Even the MB pamphlets in troop libraries can be out of date.

[scoutaholic]

... On a whitewater rafting trip, the boys don't do the actual steering. Part of this badge is the trial and error in steering the craft. On a whitewater rafting trip, the boys don't do the actual steering. Part of this badge is the trial and error in steering the craft....

That depends on the trip. I've been on a float trip where a guide rowed the way. I've also been on several whitewater excursions where we paddled (in some cases requiring strict guidance for safety). A guide that knows the river can be very important for safety, but doesn't mean that he/she does all the work.

IF they go on a trip where they just sit in a raft and someone else does everything, then it shouldn't count for the MB. IF they have a guide that instructs/guides them through navigating the rapids, that should count.

However, this doesn't really matter right now, because the requirements say that it must be done in kayak or canoe. Rafts do not count according to the current requirements.

[wagionvigil]

If you are in a 4 or 6 man raft you are not doing much as to decision making and raft control. I have guided the Yough many years and I believe I know what I say. The skills needed can only be learned if you are actually making those decisions. Reading the water and choosing your line are very important to surviving the trip. a poor choice will lead to at minimum a wet entry practice. Now if a scout was in a single shredder I might count it. Remember a raft is much more stable but less controllable then a canoe or a kayak so less likely to flip if you make a mistake. A kayak or canoe is very controllable but a mistake will put you in the water Quick

[AquilaNegra2]

IF they go on a trip where they just sit in a raft and someone else does everything, then it shouldn't count for the MB. IF they have a guide that instructs/guides them through navigating the rapids, that should count.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree. Having been on many whitewater trips (including the Yough ), the skill set is not even close. The guide is making the choices, the guide knows what's coming, the guide steers the boat. The boys are relying on someone ELSE to make the decisions; even if they are paddling their hearts out. It's the difference between being captain of the boat vs. ship's engineer.

[wagionvigil]

IF they go on a trip where they just sit in a raft and someone else does everything, then it shouldn't count for the MB. IF they have a guide that instructs/guides them through navigating the rapids, that should count.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree. Having been on many whitewater trips (including the Yough ), the skill set is not even close. The guide is making the choices, the guide knows what's coming, the guide steers the boat. The boys are relying on someone ELSE to make the decisions; even if they are paddling their hearts out. It's the difference between being captain of the boat vs. ship's engineer.

???

[AquilaNegra2]

Wasn't clear? I don't think sitting in a raft with a bunch of other people while a guide instructs you should count. (Ah, I see. I went on the Yough WITH A GUIDE in a raft with other people )

[wagionvigil]

Wasn't clear? I don't think sitting in a raft with a bunch of other people while a guide instructs you should count. (Ah, I see. I went on the Yough WITH A GUIDE in a raft with other people )

is't that what Scoutaholic said also? unless I am reading things wrong. My son did a group last week Learned to read the line and paddle in the Middle in Rafts Down to and through Z rapid( thats under the Bridge) then did the lower in Duckies the next day. SOme made very poor choices in the lower LOL.
For those that do not understand Duckie they are a top of the line Inflatable kayak. Which cost more then two of my High End Whitewater Boats.

[AquilaNegra2]

Okay, maybe I'm reading it wrong. Scoutaholic seemed to say that if the Scouts did the paddling and steering in a GROUP RAFT, that it should count. I disagree, and am glad the merit badge booklet doesn't allow it. Perhaps I misread what he wrote.