2010 Carpentry MB....

[RWSmith]

Please post your "2010 Historical" Carpentry MB questions and comments here, in this thread.

Go to "2010 Historical" Merit Badges for program information.

[Cowboy]

I have two boys who have completed this one now. (That brings the Troop to two boys with 2 of the CMB each for total of 4). My son "worked" with me when I owned a construction company and DID help on a number of roofing projects, so I had him teach the other boy roofing. Then I went back and retaught it. A good learning experience for both of them. I even have a couple of "old school" shingling hammers that they had to use, not just air tools. These are fun to work with the boys on.

[smtroop168]

One of the interesting things the requirement doesn't speak to is the use of power tools (drills, screwdrivers). Doesn't say they can't use them, it just says make an article of furniture.

It would have been nice (and maybe it will when the official requirements are published) that you must use the tools in requirements 1-4.

How do scouts complete a MB when there are no official requirements? What if they change any of what we've seen?

[Cowboy]

Of course it doesn't specify hand tools. They did not have cordless tools when this was a "valid" MB. It was nice to be able to let them work and show them how to use the power tools, not just outdated tools. We are doing it the same way that any other MB is done. They begin work. When new requirements come out they can either switch over or finish under the old requirements. Since my guys have finished the two MB's already, they don't need to worry. If National had not already announced these MB's and even posted the requirements (for about 5 hours) on the official site, this would be walking a fine line, but it is not the boys fault if National doesn't have all the ducks in a row. In my opinion: These are suppose to be commemorative MB's. I have yet to see anything that would create a danger to the boys, so they should not change a thing about them.

[smtroop168]

Of course it doesn't specify hand tools. They did not have cordless tools when this was a "valid" MB. It was nice to be able to let them work and show them how to use the power tools, not just outdated tools. We are doing it the same way that any other MB is done. They begin work. When new requirements come out they can either switch over or finish under the old requirements. Since my guys have finished the two MB's already, they don't need to worry. If National had not already announced these MB's and even posted the requirements (for about 5 hours) on the official site, this would be walking a fine line, but it is not the boys fault if National doesn't have all the ducks in a row. In my opinion: These are suppose to be commemorative MB's. I have yet to see anything that would create a danger to the boys, so they should not change a thing about them.

If you want to use power tools, do the Woodwork MB...these are supposed to be Historical MBs.

There are and never were any OFFICIAL requirements...they were DRAFTS. The 12 Jan posting on the scouting magazine site did not include "requirements"

[Cowboy]

Yep, woodworking Merit Badge still says use a Brace & Bit, not a power drill. For the record: BSA.org did have the Commemorative Merit Badges on the site (as stated previously) for about 5 hours. I did not mention any scouting magazine. I am refering to www.scouting.org/100years. On 2 February 2010 they had the announcment and the link for the requirements. Additionally, www.scoutstuff.org (our official BSA supplier) has these Merit Badges and even a dead link to the centenial site. Read it for yourself. Whatever the reasons for putting this program on hold, it is a severe dis-service to the boys to hang it out there in limbo. If they are going to cancel the program they need to announce that, if they are going to make some changes to existing requirements, they should say that. Boys did start to work on these, and some even finished them up based on existing requirements.

[smtroop168]

Just looks to me that you're in a hurry to get these badges. If it only took a short time, then why not wait for it all to become official.

[razor_strop]

If you want to use power tools, do the Woodwork MB...these are supposed to be Historical MBs.

Does this imply the boys need to use a Kodak Brownie or Six-16 camera to take the pictures required by the Tracking MB?

[smtroop168]

If you want to use power tools, do the Woodwork MB...these are supposed to be Historical MBs.

Does this imply the boys need to use a Kodak Brownie or Six-16 camera to take the pictures required by the Tracking MB?

Yep and you must use a Model T for Pathfinding.

[Quailman]

Why not have them make a pinhole camera?

[Cowboy]

I remember that one. Ticked ma off when I dumped out all of the quaker oats to make it.

[AquilaNegra2]

Just looks to me that you're in a hurry to get these badges. If it only took a short time, then why not wait for it all to become official.

I think the problem is that they were there. People made plans based upon the information that WAS available. We're continuing on with our plans, and will just hold the blue cards until they're "officially" released. Our Council approved merit badge counselors for them.

It's just irritating. Many of us make plans far in advance -- why can't BSA National? And what's the hold-up, anyway? This isn't that big a project. If they want to pay me, I'll do it (and well) in a week.

[deweylure]

I heard yesterday from council the badges are a go and the requirements were as listed , at least the first draft that was put on the website.

Again NO adding or subtracting from the MB. I doubt if some parents know what a brace is let alone have one. I have collected some old tools from my Grandfather and my son purchased some antique planes,for himself some from late 1800's and early 1900's He will finish the badge soon.

Hopefully badges can start being recorded and scouts can get the badge providing there are not other issues that arise.

Dewey

[topshot]

For the shingles, do you think the intent is to use wood ones or are newer asphalt ones fine, too?

[alex gregory]

For the shingles, do you think the intent is to use wood ones or are newer asphalt ones fine, too?

Asphalt shingles have been around since at least the 19th century, but the "newer" fibergalss shingles have only been around since the 70s. My take on the Carpentry merit badge is that you should try to keep the materials and methods as true to 1910 as possible. Because organic asphalt shingles are hard to find and are more expensive, I'm thinking cedar is the way to go. We have a small chicken coop that could use an attractive roof. A bundle of cedar shingles costs about $40, and there will still be extra shingles for the boy who wants to roof a dog house or something.

Ultimately, it's up to the MBC. If you have some extra fiberglass roofing shingles I think that is fine. The introduction "suggests" doing it the old-fashioned way, so if you use fiberglass shingles just work with a hammer and nails.

[PaulSWolf]

Read nothing more into the requirement than actually is written.

"Demonstrate how to lay shingles." can be met with wooden, slate, or asphalt/fiberglass shingles.

While the materials are vastly different, the basic process is the same, including staggering seams, overlapping layers, concealing the nails under subsequent tiers, etc.

[RWSmith]

We have a small chicken coop that could use an attractive roof. A bundle of cedar shingles costs about $40, and there will still be extra shingles for the boy who wants to roof a dog house or something.

Ultimately, it's up to the MBC. If you have some extra fiberglass roofing shingles I think that is fine. The introduction "suggests" doing it the old-fashioned way, so if you use fiberglass shingles just work with a hammer and nails.

What? Why should that be "up to the MBC"?

The chickens should be allowed to take a vote. Or, better still, ask the dog -- any "good" dog deserves a cedar roof. (Just don't ask anybody named Napoleon or Snowball.)

[Cowboy]

Although the introduction says that we should be be guiding them in the "old fashioned" way, it is also our responsibility to teach them a USEFUL skill. In all of my years of construction I only had call to install cedar shakes three times. I also installed a semi load of asphalt shingles and steel sheeting. When counseling this MB I showed the boys how to install modern materials so that they can actually work on a roof in the future. I did show them how to use a roofing hammer AND a roofing gun.

[Reasonable Rascal]

I realize that this thread is a bit dated and the period in which to earn this MB is now over, but since my troop didn't hold it's clinic until Dec. 4 consider this to be a slightly delayed action report of sorts.

We tried to hit the Historic MB's hard, and Carpentry was no exception. In fact it required the most time of any of them in terms of preparation and execution. We spent literally months gathering historical tools to make the execution as historically accurate as possible. In the end we had 2 rip saws - no one sells them any more so they were garage sale finds - 2 2-man crosscut saws, bit and brace, and all the other accoutrements either called for or illustrated in the requirements flyer. The 2-man saws were illustrated so we took that as a form of gospel if you will. Folding wooden rules, wood-handled claw hammers, framing squares and wooden levels - everything was as period as we could find. Almost everything was a garage sale find.

We constructed a low roof from a 4x8 plywood sheet for the shingling requirement and settled for asphalt shingles as cedar just wasn't available within the budget. Also constructed a sawbuck for use with the 2-man saws. The boys took turns turning a 7-foot x 9" dia. tamarask log into rounds that they valued almost more than the badge itself.

For the furniture project we chose the foot stool from the suggested projects as being something they could complete in one day, after having spent the morning - this was an 8-hour clinic - learning how to use the tools, perform the shingling and sawing, etc.

In the end we had a total of 22 boys from 5 troops who attended and completed the badge. One boy was so taken with the screwdriver that he finally had to be stopped after he'd placed 8 screws! Our concession to modern tools were several combination hand saws for the actual cutting out of the project pieces.

I cannot emphasize enough the value of a sharp 2-man saw for something the boys will take to over and over. Those will go with us whenever we camp somewhere that there would be logs available for cutting, simply because of the fun and physical exercise factors.

RR

[Bill Pitcher]

Sounds like you "hit the nail on the head!"