Eagle merit badges required for rank ???

[mburgus]

I use Troopmaster 2005. When I ran the reports today it showed on of the scouts ready to advance to Star. The scout has earned 5 Eagle required and 1elective merit badges. If this is true and I allow this, what happens when he goes for eagle?

Mark

[Mrw]

The requirement is to earn 6 badges including at least 4 required for Eagle.

There shouldn't be a problem anywhere here.

If you have ever actually looked at the Eagle application, it asks for the names and dates of the badges earned, but in no way specifies what type of order they are earned in.

My question here is, does the scout think he is ready for the Star rank? He should be coming to you to request the advancement. At most, I would ask him how he progressing and see what he thinks. Our boys look at that requirement as 4 required and two other badges. As they earn the badges, they record them in their books that way and don't ask for advancement until they have fulfilled the requirement the way they interpret it.

I also have never had a boy earn the requiered badges before adding on a few of the easier other ones, so this discussion has never come up in our troop.

[PaulSWolf]

As MRW said, the bottom line, is he has the required badges for Star. Don't worry about it.

He could even have 6 badges from the required list and no electives at all and it would be fine for Star, and could have 11 required badges and no electives for Life, if that's the order he earns them.

Keep in mind also that for Star and Life, if he's earned them, he can count all 3 from the Swimming, Hiking, or Cycling group, and both Lifesaving and Emergency Preparedness from that group, toward the minimum number of required badges, even though only one from each group counts toward the 12 required badges for Eagle. When he fills out the Eagle application, a Scout doing this just just chooses one from each group as the "required" badge, and uses the others as electives.

[Mick Scouter]

Not much to add except that I agree with the previous replies. I wonder how many scouts have reached eagle with only 21 MB total?

[Scouting179]

Paul Wolf is absolutely correct.

I would only add that the order does matter for two requireds: as the first requirement for EPrep is to have completed First Aid MB.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Maybe our troop is wrong here but for the Star Rank, we require 6 badges total with 4 being Eagle required and 2 being anything else. If a scout earned 5 Eagle required badges, we slot 4 towards Star and put the other one towards LIFE, leaving 2 more electives for Star. If you look at the way these requirements are written in the scout handbook, the national advancement sheet, or on-line, they all leave 2 spaces for non-eagle required?

We do allow hiking, swimming and cycling combos as individual badges, and allow them to go towards the same rank (as mentioned above).

[ASM-142]

Your troop is wrong on ths one. All 5 badges would count towards star.

[Scouting179]

Maybe our troop is wrong here but for the Star Rank, we require 6 badges total with 4 being Eagle required and 2 being anything else. If a scout earned 5 Eagle required badges, we slot 4 towards Star and put the other one towards LIFE, leaving 2 more electives for Star. If you look at the way these requirements are written in the scout handbook, the national advancement sheet, or on-line, they all leave 2 spaces for non-eagle required?

We do allow hiking, swimming and cycling combos as individual badges, and allow them to go towards the same rank (as mentioned above).

Your troop is not doing this correctly. The spaces are "Eagle required" and "any MB" (which is how Troopmaster processes them, BTW), not "Eagle required" and "non required".

Officially, the requirement says "Earn six merit badges, including any four from the required list for Eagle." It does NOT say "earn two non-required MBs".

[JazerNorth]

This issue took me quite a while to understand. The reason I thought that the Star/Life requirements could only take so many required is that it says specifically required badges. Also, if the math is done, it would be:

Star: 4 Required 2 Optional
Life: 3 Required 2 Optional
Eagle: 5 Required 5 Optional
Total: 12 Required 9 Optional

If the scout burns up 6 required on Star, then there wouldn't be enough required to complete Eagle. Therefore, the Scoutmaster would move the required to the next rank. That is a huge falicy.

The way it really is:

Star: 4 Required 2 Any
Life: 3 Required 2 Any
Eagle: Finish Required and Optional for a total of 12 Required and 9 Optional.
Total: 12 Required 9 Optional

The goal is to get 12 Required with the Star and Life helping to spread it out. If the scout wants to get more required in Star or Life, they can, as the other MB are any badge.

Hope that helps.

JazerNorth

[Mick Scouter]

Sounds correct. I know there are requirements and we must conform to the requirements; however, how often does a scout make eagle with 21 and only 21 MB? I can't imagine it is very often.

[Mrw]

We had one last year with 22, but 26-30 seems more typical.

I was updating our troop advancement poster last night and most of the kids have non-requireds listed out in the extra badge column for Eagle already even though they may only be Tenderfoot or Second Class.

We encourage a mix of the required and the "fun" or personal interest topics for our boys.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Interesting. I do see what you are all saying and will bring this up at our next committee meeting. In looking back through our records, I see the previous advancement coordinators have done this the same way I was taught and for many, many years. (we use an individual advancement record, this is how I can look back so many years as we have records dating back to the late 70's)

[Mick Scouter]

It is interesting as to which MBs are selected/requested or offered. I have found that boys will typically enjoy a variety. Also, we have life scouts with 35 or more MBs and first class and stars that have in excess of 21 without all the eagle required complete.

[San Mar Rochaid]

I was wondering about a similar issue to this.

Suppose a scout earns Star by earning 6 required merit badges. Thereafter, he earns 1 more required, and 4 electives. He has seven requireds and 4 electives, which is the minimum needed for Life. However, the exact wording of the requirement is:

"Earn 5 more merit badges (so that you have 11 in all), including any 3 more from the required list for Eagle" (emphasis mine).

Does this mean that the scout still needs 2 more requireds to earn Life, since he has only earned 1 since Star, or does it mean that he needs a total of 7 (not 3) requireds?

[PaulSWolf]

I was wondering about a similar issue to this.

Suppose a scout earns Star by earning 6 required merit badges. Thereafter, he earns 1 more required, and 4 electives. He has seven requireds and 4 electives, which is the minimum needed for Life. However, the exact wording of the requirement is:

"Earn 5 more merit badges (so that you have 11 in all), including any 3 more from the required list for Eagle" (emphasis mine).

Does this mean that the scout still needs 2 more requireds to earn Life, since he has only earned 1 since Star, or does it mean that he needs a total of 7 (not 3) requireds?

Its the TOTAL at the time of his BOR that matters (i.e. 7 in the case in point).

He needs AT LEAST 4 Eagle required and AT LEAST 6 total for Star.

He needs AT LEAST 7 Eagle required and AT LEAST 11 total for Life.

He needs at least 12 Eagle required and AT LEAST 21 total for Eagle.

For Star & Life, Emergency Prep. AND Lifesaving can BOTH be used toward the number of Eagle Required badges, and similarly Hiking, Swimming, and Cycling can ALL be used toward the number of Eagle Required badges.

For Eagle, if he has Emergency Prep. AND Lifesaving, only one counts as Eagle required, but the other counts toward the total, and if he has any combination of Hiking, Swimming, and Cycling, only one counts as Eagle required, but the others count toward the total.

He needs AT LEAST 26 total for his Bronze Palm, AT LEAST 31 total for his Giold Palm, and AT LEAST 36 total for his Silver Palm, then AT LEAST 5 more for each successive Palm.

[Mrw]

Paul,

I am sure it is a typo, but it is 26 for the Bronze Palm, 31 for the Gold Palm and 36 for the Silver Palm.

And yes, if a boy earns all 15 Eagle required badges before earning any of the others, he will still be eligible for Star with 6 and Life with 11.

[PaulSWolf]

Paul,

I am sure it is a typo, but it is 26 for the Bronze Palm, 31 for the Gold Palm and 36 for the Silver Palm.

And yes, if a boy earns all 15 Eagle required badges before earning any of the others, he will still be eligible for Star with 6 and Life with 11.

Thanks for catching that. I've corrected it.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Please go back and re-read this thread to see where I previously stood, as I seem to be one of the few that records ERB differently than most of you. I said I would bring this up to our committe and the SPL and here's what has been decided. Based on comments stated in this thread by others and re-reading the way the reguirements read - our troop has decided to stay with the way we record badges.

Based on several key points:

1.The requirement says

Earn five more merit badges (so that you have 11 in all), including any three more from the required list for Eagle.

2.This is similar to the requirement for Community Service Work, which is an ongoing requirement needed to earn for each advancement. A scout cannot do all the service work when a Tenderfoot and space the time out for each rank advancement, the time worked needs to be during each rank for the next advancement.

3. The fact that to use 6 ERB's to earn Star could mean that badges are then relocated later to Life and new badges entered into the spaces for Star. This is like playing around with the system.

Although this decision by our troop my not seem like the way most of you do your recording, I feel comfortable that I brought this to the attention of the other adults, committe and SPL to have a group decision.

[RWSmith]

I would only add that the order does matter for two requireds: as the first requirement for EPrep is to have completed First Aid MB.

Technically, this is correct. (And it's definately a gotcha to be avoided on the ES Appl.

However, it is important to note these two MBs may be completed on the same day... Although the first requirement listed for E-Prep is to earn the First Aid MB, that does not mean you must earn it first. IOW, a Scout may complete any or all of the other requirements for E-Prep prior to completing a single First Aid MB requirement. I know it seems like common sense to naturally expect First Aid to come before E-Prep; but, this is simply a misnomer.

Bear in mind, esp. if you're an MBC for E-Prep, the Scout has the right complete Req. 1 last when earning E-Prep.

Hypothetical situation: Your the SM and your Troop has just arrived at Summer Camp for a week of fun (and earning MBs). Your newest Scout wants to take First Aid; but, it's full... you assume he can't take E-Prep--wrong! Or, the staff says he can't take E-Prep because he hasn't got First Aid--wrong! [I've been on both sides of that fence; and in both cases, I was wrong.]

[Scouting179]

Please go back and re-read this thread to see where I previously stood, as I seem to be one of the few that records ERB differently than most of you. I said I would bring this up to our committe and the SPL and here's what has been decided. Based on comments stated in this thread by others and re-reading the way the reguirements read - our troop has decided to stay with the way we record badges.

Based on several key points:

1.The requirement says

Earn five more merit badges (so that you have 11 in all), including any three more from the required list for Eagle.

2.This is similar to the requirement for Community Service Work, which is an ongoing requirement needed to earn for each advancement. A scout cannot do all the service work when a Tenderfoot and space the time out for each rank advancement, the time worked needs to be during each rank for the next advancement.

3. The fact that to use 6 ERB's to earn Star could mean that badges are then relocated later to Life and new badges entered into the spaces for Star. This is like playing around with the system.

Although this decision by our troop my not seem like the way most of you do your recording, I feel comfortable that I brought this to the attention of the other adults, committe and SPL to have a group decision.

Use Troopmaster for and it will take care of all this for you -- and it does it correctly.