Service Project Question for Star and Life

[Billiken]

Looking for opinions/answers to a question re service project(s) for Star and Life.

I know that the Eagle project may not directly or indirectly benefit Scouting.

In reading the 2007 requirements there is no stipulation like this for the Star/Life service projects.
Basically, it says the project(s) "...must be approved by your Scoutmaster.."

My question is this; Can the hours for the Star/Life service project requirement be earned by perfroming service that benefits the BSA?
(Specifically, a conservation-related service project at a council camp)

THANKS.

[optimist]

Yes

[OldGreyBear]

as they say, Brevity is the soul of wit, so I shall not try to improve upon Optimist's most excellent response

[smtroop168]

I agree. You can also use hours that you might spend helping a scout with his Eagle project.

[RWSmith]

Well,

Beautiful; just beautiful. This thread merits a "Sticky".

[FrankJ]

...must be approved by your scout master... So what would pass for service hours in one troop wouldn't necessarily pass in another troop. Our troop is pretty open on this. If a scout puts in hours in an organized project, he get the credit.

This really isn't a hard requirement for any scout that is following the principles of scouting.

[evmori]

...must be approved by your scout master... So what would pass for service hours in one troop wouldn't necessarily pass in another troop. Our troop is pretty open on this. If a scout puts in hours in an organized project, he get the credit.

This really isn't a hard requirement for any scout that is following the principles of scouting.

Excellent answer! Agree!

[scouter01]

I did some of my hours at Lost Valley Scout Ranch ( the boy scout camP)

[ynotquilt]

Continuing this thread, where does it state that nothing can be added or subtracted from a merit badge or rank advancement requirement? Our troop just informed me that my son's 40+ service hours helping with Cub Scout Day Camp do not count for his Life rank because they benefitted BSA. I want to be able to give them the "chapter and verse" where this "policy" of "no adding or subtracting" from requirements.

Thanks!

[PaulSWolf]

Continuing this thread, where does it state that nothing can be added or subtracted from a merit badge or rank advancement requirement? Our troop just informed me that my son's 40+ service hours helping with Cub Scout Day Camp do not count for his Life rank because they benefitted BSA. I want to be able to give them the "chapter and verse" where this "policy" of "no adding or subtracting" from requirements.

Thanks!

Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures (#33088 - 2007 Printing) Page 23:

"No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement"

Sounds like they're confusing the Service Project requirement for EAGLE which may not involve council property or other BSA activities. There's no such restriction on Second Class, Star, or Life service hours.

[wagionvigil]

It says a 6 hour service project benefiting others approved "before starting" by the scoutmaster. The only restriction is for the Eagle Project that cannot benefit scouting. That is very specific. The others just say others. Cub Scouts would be others But it does say it must be pre approved by the SM.

[RWSmith]

I could be wrong on this; but,... I respectfully disagree regarding pre-approval. Following are the requirements, verbatum:

Star: Req. 4. "While a First Class Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least six hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster."

Life: Req. 4. "While a Star Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least six hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster."

There's no stipulation that the service hours must be pre-approved by the SM, only that the work the Scout performed meets the SM's approval. Somewhat unfortunately, the requirements, as they are written, are not clear as to define the SM's approval being pre- or post-work, nor are there any restrictions as to what type of work is allowed/disallowed. However, that may well be the intent... because what typically happens is that SMs will broadly (and, rightly so) interpret the requirements so as to credit the Scout for any type of meaningful service project work (whether it benefits Scoutnig, or not; whether it was pre-approved by the SM, or not). One of the major items discussed at a Star or Life candidate's SMC, will be about the Scout's service project work; how he felt about the project itself; how he felt abouit his role, including his exercising leadership, if any was required.

So, as long as the work done by the Scout could be viewed a service project work, then the SM (almost always) approves the hours. However, if the SM says no, then it's no. Period. [FWIW, I wouldn't dare refuse a Scout 6 hours credit for Star or Life after he spent 40 hours (an entire week) volunteering at Cub Day Camp, et al.]

Edit: Read the entire thread!!! -- RWSmith

[wagionvigil]

If it is pre approved then we do not have this problem
When I was a SM I approved anything that was worthwhile. The boys have a hard enough time without artificial barirers

[Chief J]

All excellent responses, don't know that I can add anything more.

Best Regards, Keep up the good work,
Chief J

[evmori]

It might not say pre-approved but common sense tells you that they should be pre-approved. What happens if the Scout does a service project the Scoutmaster doesn't approve?

[wagionvigil]

Sounds like this is one of them

[RWSmith]

Okay, here's a bit of a conundrum...

Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures, BSA Supply No. 33088 (p. 27)...

Service Projects...

Star and Life Ranks..."For Star and Life ranks, a Scout must perform six hours of service to others. This may be done as an individual project or as a member of a partol or troop project. Star and Life service projects may be approved for Scouts assisting on Eagle service projects. The Scoutmaster approves the project before it is started." (Emphasis added.)

Now, that being said: "It is what it is."

So, it would seem to be incumbent upon the SM to teach the Scouts in his/her Troop that there is a distinction between giving "service to others" and receiving credit for "service project hours." Whereas, the latter must always and individually be approved by the SM, in advance. [If this is not made clear by the SM, and the only dis-qualifying issue being the request was made after the fact, I would think it only fair to defer to the Scout's service as creditable.] Besides, service projects aren't done in order to enable Scouts to check off some rank requirement; they're done in order to benefit others or something (i.e., the environment), rather than one's self. And we hope (intend) that the results thereof will build strong character and good citizenship in the Scout(s).

I think that because of the fact that the Eagle rank specifically lays out the required pre-approvals and that the lesser rank requirements do not (specifically say "before"), some SMs out there in the field do approve such after-the-fact requests, at Second Class, Star and Life, not to mention the fact that the clarification is tucked into the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures.

Anyhow, since I found this clarification, I wanted to bring it up, so as not to incorrectly mis-lead anyone from my previous post in this thread.... My bad.

[mhjacobson]

Hopefully, this, and other clarifications can be added to the Scoutmaster's handbook. There is a problem when important clarifications are in the advancement handbook, but not in the SM handbook. As a training chair, I expect to have a shelf full of BSA tomes, but the average SM certainly does not want to be carting a shelf full of manuals whith which to do his job!

[Hubert]

Darn near all of my hours (for school and scouts) were earned out at Cub Camp. But as said before, the final call comes to the SM.

[longhorneagle]

Yes