Star Rank Board of Review For Disabled Scout, How Handled?

[w9lqi]

Need Support For Proper Way to Handle Star Rank Board of review For Scout With Disabilities;

The problem is this; young scout with multiple disabilites (high functioning autism, seizure disorder and complex auditory processing delay issues)

In the past he was allowed the minor accomodation of using a prompt sheet to fill out the conference form. He was allowed to prepare and bring a prompt sheet into the board of review. He has more than fulfilled the requirements, excellent scout spirit, completed 27 MB already, 7 are Eagle required, received comendation for job well done as Librarian for past two years, successful Scoutmaster interview. A/B student in school, IEP with full inclusion and an aid in top rated public middle school.

This time the Advancement Chair wouldn't let him use the accomodation, he was not allowed to bring the prompt sheet into the Board of Review.
He met with a Board of Review for 48 minutes, they grilled him in an agressive way, he shut down and resorted to one word answers or none, or was confused by the questions. They rejected him for the advancement, two weeks later reconvened the Board and handed him an undated letter that among other things, stated that: he needed to " be prepared to discuss any of the MB's he completed in detail, show how he lived God and Country in detail, difficult subject's eg leadership, your value system, specific examples, not single word answers. We want to know how Scouting is becoming an essential part of your life. "

The letter went on to say that it would be at least two months before he could go before the next Board of Review and he would need to reapply at that.

With a "Good Luck" and a "Yours in Scouting"

My questions are: Short of hiring a disabled person's civil rights atttorney, what are my options for the boy?

What published reference can I use?

What quotable Source can I use?

He has disabilities but didn't use any accomodation to complete all but Board of Review on his Scout trudge to Star rank.
He really needs a prompt to complete the conference but he muddled thru but it took him five weeks of regular meetings to complete it (noisy room and 15 minutes at a time allowed each meeting right under thumb of advancement chair, forced to sit at her noisy table).
In the case of Board of Review he needs the prompt sheet because he has problem retrieving the words out of his mind. He is very bright but has a disability with the I-O function.
He needs to have advance notice of the questions so that he can practice. I think he needs an knowledgeable, compasionate Board, that's why I'm taking it to District (WLACC) for a hearing.

Help, help
R.F. Hutchinson for Warren
ASM Troop 464 Woodland Hills, California

[WeeWillie]

What does the Scout's doctor say he is capable of doing? Under no way, shape, or form does Scout advancement requirements superceed those of a doctor.

[FrankJ]

Retrain your committee maybe? Here is a link to BOR training on the BSA web site
http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/18-625.pdf

Talking to your district advancement committee chair is a possibility. Find out from your council who works with scouts with disabilities and talk to them. They would at least will know how the system works in your council.

Good luck. Keep looking until you find some one helpful.

[wagionvigil]

What is a conference form?

[jhawk]

Wow. Sounds like it was the BOR who failed the scout, not the scout who failed the board of review.... I hope he is even willing to try again after that experience. I would recommend that the parents list the accommodations that he gets in school and ask that they be the same ones given to him at a BOR. Perhaps the parents could provide some written documentation of how the diagnoses of autism and CAPD especially will affect his ability to hear and process language and how hard it will be for him to answer well, under pressure in particular.
Will the BOR accept that he needs to understand what they want to know ahead of time and have time to formulate his answers? In other words, do they understand his disabilities and they just don't want to accommodate him, or are they just clueless?
This scout DEFINITELY needs an understanding and compassionate board who understands him and his special needs.
He sounds like an incredible scout. I wish him well in his endeavors and certainly am sorry that he has had to endure this.

[ASM-142]

Has counsel approved accomendations for this scout? If so, did the BOR follow these accomendations?

If there are no approved accomendations, does this advancement chair conduct all BORs this same way?

[Nuts4Scouts]

He really needs a prompt to complete the conference but he muddled thru but it took him five weeks of regular meetings to complete it (noisy room and 15 minutes at a time allowed each meeting right under thumb of advancement chair, forced to sit at her noisy table).

HUH??

Was this a Scoutmaster Conference, or the BOR?

Either way this is so wrong it is unbelieveable!

Take it to council & unless you fix your Committee I would suggest this fine Scout find an equally fine Troop, because your's is not it.

[wagionvigil]

sounds like we are adding to the requirements does it not? ALmost sounds like a test.

Of course the response would be well that is the way the troop has always done it. My response would be the troop is wrong and needs to look at the rules and fiollow them. Training for BOR member is out there check it out.

[Quailman]

If this had been written to the late Ann Landers, I'm sure she would have checked the postmark to see if it came from New Haven.

w9lqi, your last sentence says it all. He needs a "knowledgeable, compasionate Board" and you clearly do not have one. Good luck at the District level.

I think all are good recommendations - the doctor's recommended adaptations, what the school system provides for this young man, and if all else fails, find a new troop.

(And for you youngsters who are passing through, I was referring to the practice of Yale students who would write the craziest stories of woe to see who could get Ann Landers to publish it.)

[w9lqi]

Thank you Scouters for the help.

This is my first posting so I hope I'm doing it correctly.

A five page letter was given to the parent committee when we joined. in 2004. It described in detail his disabilities. Two of them are life threatening, the seizure disorder and the meds that he has to take to control them. The meds are very dangerous and I always accompany him on all outings. I was admonished by the prior committee chair to never be more than fifteen minutes away from him.

I filed an e-mail in Jan 07 with the advancements chair regarding the need for the written prompts in preparing the "Conference Form, her contrivance consisting of the standard material to be asked in a BOR, (she also describes it as an advancement contract agreement) I also asked her to allow Warren the prompt sheet to be used in a BOR. She and the Scout master denied my request on both counts.

She makes all the boys fill out the conference form at advancment time. It is then given to BOR committee and they use it during the hearing. That's all well and good if the process is handled promptly, which recently is not the case. And, If the Scout is able to recall and be verbally fast on his feet, which Warren is not because of his disability.

Also, for clarification, Warren has everything signed off for Star rank in his Scout Handbook but the sign off for the BOR. So this thread is about getting through the BOR.

In the past I have talked to council about filing formal disability papers and they tell me that I only need them if he we expect that it will take him longer than 18 to complete Eagle requirements. In the Warren's case he is 13 ++ and will be 14 on 08/02/07. He has made steady respectable progress and would likely fulfill Eagle requriements before his 18th birthday. He has been in the troop for three years as of 04/28/07

One issue that I am dealing with present key troop leadership is a sophomoric attitude that they have watched him grow for three years and he just needed to mature "marinate is a word the advancement chair has used", so they want him to do just what the rest of the boys are expected to do. I guess I would frame it as a one size fits all mentality.

What I can't seem to get the current parent committee collective to understand is that although he has made great progress because of scouts and huge quantities of therapy, he will not get over what he's afflicted with. It's all under the single area of neurologic. The facts are that about 15% of autistic children are also afflicted with the seizure disorder. For Warren the disorder is in the right frontal lobe and may also account for the I-O problem.

The your comments so far tell me that I really need to get some letters from his neurologist, and therapist, in this case Reiss Davis Child Development Institute and North Los Angeles Regional Center (Which we now have). The troop parent committee has certainly been well informed but I see the wisdom of an expert's letter

Thus, I am looking for supportive material to write a letter to the scout master, the parent committe chair, the district chair and the brand new scouts with disabilites program chair for the district. for a formal; hearing. I will be serving on that committee in hopes that a positive resolution of my son's case will provide a greater good so that some other disabled boy with similar issues will not have to go through this nightmare too.

As a post script we will be Disabilities Committee meeting at District on 04/26/07. I understand someone from national council will be there with the new drafts on material on the subject of scouting with disabilities. I will be there to share what little I know. I've found a lot of holes in the existing material. The final rewrite of the new material is likely months away from publishing. That is why I posted here in hopes of some help from you kindly folks in finding supporting material for the case I'm going to have to make at District.

Thank you again,

Hutch For Warren

[wagionvigil]

Robert ,What is a conference form? A BOR is not a hearing and should never be compared to one. A BOR should be very relaxed as you discuss the scouts trail to Eagle.

[Quailman]

I'm guessing that this is a rather large troop, thus the one-size-fits-all mentality. My older son transferred from a large troop (120+ boys) to a smaller one (~25 boys) to get away from that. His younger brother has been in that smaller troop for three years now. He has cerebral palsy and cannot do what all of them do, and they are very accomodating within the BSA guidelines.

[cballman]

ok heres where I am going to get blasted. first of all a few questions. does all the boys who are going for the same rank have the same questions asked? do all the other boys BOR last the same amount of time? if not then since the SM ans the Advancement chair are to me seemingly against this child then ask either the Charter rep or the Committie Chair about this. if they concur with the scoutmaster the I would seek district or council help. I would have a BOR time and date to give to the district person have them come in and observe the BOR. then discuss what they have seen with all partys. then if nothing happens the consult a Lawyer and bring the troop down. if they are going this haphazard with a disabled child the I would hate to see what they do to a somewhat normal child. please send a copy of the conference form to one of the Mods of this board so we can see and help you figure if they are going overboard.

[scouter01]

well, I wish the Boys and for that matter, parents, since having a kid with autism isn't easy for our troop........ anyway. IMHO, I don't know what his severity/symptoms are, but I think that he should be allowed anyhting necessary for him to pass.

[FrankJ]

One: get Advancement Committee Guidelines if you do not already have it. It should be available at your local scout shop, or order online at http://www.scoutstuff.org.

Reading it you will realize that questions about merit badges are talking points. The scout has already earned them and they are not subject to review. The BOR should be about 15 min not 45. I am little suprised with your SM. After all he signed off everthing the BOR covers.

Being "fast on your feet" & articulate are admirable qualities, but are not rank requirements.

If you are just interested in winning the battle, when you appeal this to district, I suspect you would be successful. Another way to ask district for modifications which could include advance questions or a "translator" to sit with your son during the BORs.

The district disabilities committee sound like just the place you need to be. I expect you will find the people on that committee interested in providing positive solutions.

I have to agree that the advancement guidelines for scouts with disabilities is in woeful need of updating. Hopefully your input will help

I suspect I would pass your son on scout spirit just for getting where he is.

[joat]

Forget about making a case based on accommodating disabilities. From what you have posted, the board is totally and completely out of bounds disability or not. A BOR is a friendly chat with a boy, not an interrogation. It is not a test. There are no forms for the boy to fill out. The purpose of questions is to get a conversation started, NOT to get a “correct” answer. A 15 minute friendly discussion is all that’s needed for a board to determine whether the Scout has completed the requirements. The requirements, by the way, are what he has already had signed off in his book. “Maturity” is NOT a requirement for advancement. Get a copy of the Advancement Committee book #33088, the Troop Committee Guidebook #34505, and the Scoutmaster Handbook # 33009. They all have a section on conducting boards of review and what you’re describing is not part of it. And take look at the BSA board of review training at http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/suppl ... index.html .

The point to be made is that the way the committee is handling this has no support at all within Scouting. Challenge the committee to point out what Scouting publication supports their process. Then read to them straight from the book what a real board of review is all about.

[evmori]

I only read the 1st post. Didn't need to go any farther.

The AC lady needs to be removed. She is out of control & way out of line. There are guidelines for dealing with disabled Scouts & apparently she has never read these guidelines. I would elevate this as far up the ladder as it needed to go. What she is doing is just wrong & could be in violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

[Lynda J]

First, was this boy set up for early on as a Scout with special needs? If not then the SM let him down. If you have a boy that has special needs you need to get approval to alter some requirements as early on in his Scouting life as possible. Because if you don't and he gets to Eagle and requirements have been altered he is out of luck. If he did get approval for alters requirements the board had to accept these. If he needs to refer to a written sheet to help him that should have been approved as an alteration.
What I wonder about is if this kid is an Honor Student, I doubt if the school is allowing him to use "crib notes" for tests. If he can do that well in school what is the problem within the troop on boards?

I would guarentee you that if this boy appealed this boards decission to the Council he would win. I don't know about your council but in ours if a district has more than two appeals on BOR the Council Advancement Chair starts looking into the problem.

BORs can not RETEST a scout. We have one father in our troop that we no longer allow to sit on boards. Because he thinks he can make them tie knots, describe how to do a skill.

We have a booklet that we have for each rank for our board members. It has a list of recommended questions.

The only badge question I have ever ask at any board is at Eagle and that is "which badge did you enjoy earning most and why, Which did you enjoy the least and why. Which badge do you think that you learned the most from."

But your committee needs to be retrained regarding what they can and can not do on BOR.

[jr56]

Sounds like this BOR is totally out of line. I still don't know what this written form is ?
A boy should not need written prompts for a BOR. It is not a test. The board should accomodate the boys needs and this is clearly not being done. This needs to be appealed to the disctrict Advancement chair ASAP.

[wagionvigil]

I would like t hear from some of the posters that keeping talking about the ivory tower of scouting. I have no problem with contacting this council and asking for an investigation as to how this troop is operated. This is what gets my goat and really makes me angry