Scout Behaviour

[AndrewMcHorney]

Hello

Is it possible to derank or move a scout down a rank? We have a scout in our troop who is now a life Scout. During his Board of Review for Star he was told that his conduct and relationship with the other scouts and adults had to improve before he made Life. He made great improvements and he earned the rank of Life. At the Life Board of review, he was told that he had to continue improving and to assume a stronger leadership role including a den chief role and to lead activities. Unfortunately his conduct has deteriated (excuse the spelling) and his attitude has gone bad. His conduct has created safety issues (throwing trekking poles) and disturbed scouts at backpack training. He has disrespected adults and used inappropriate language.

I was asked by the Committee Chair to have the Board or Review members for Start and Life (all the same) to meet and discuss what to do. She would like him to be deranked. It may be possible to do this since it was a somewhat conditional advancement.

What makes this difficult is that the boy is the son of the Scoutmaster who is an Eagle Scout. The Committee Chairperson is his wife. I am merely the Advancement Chairperson.

Does anyone had advice?


Andrew

[commish3]

Not any longer, except for one rank.

In Scoutings earlier day a rank could be removed from a scout who did not live by the values of the Oath and Law. Since that time the Scout Spirit requirement was added and the scout's "living by the Oath and Law in everyday Life" is now considered prior to the rank being awarded.

The one exception is Eagle Scout. The National Board of Review has the authority to rescind the Eagle Scout rank distinction at any time and instruct that the award be returned to the BSA. This has been excercised only on rare occasions and is not publicized due to confidentialty regulations.

[Beagle Scout]

There really is no such thing as a conditional advancement. This isn't the Army with brevet ranks. Once that form is turned in, that advancement has happened. At least most of the time. I once put a boy down as Life when it was supposed to be Star. I headed to the Council Office, the Registrar found the Advancement report and I corrected things. However, that was the result of a error.

What you can do is have that Board of Review and explain to the Scout that his behaviour is abysmal and that until he straightens up, he can't go camping or on other outings. You could also explain to him that if he doesn't straighten up, future advancement will be affected.

[commish3]

The function of the BoR is to determine advancement progress not to dole out punishment. Discipline, according to the BSA program resources, is to be done by the troop committee with the scout and his parents.

[t305spl]

You can also conduct a special committee meeting to find out if due to his behavior he can remain in your scout troop. Since you can't derank him and if he really is being a horrible scout, ou should do this.

[evmori]

The only choice you have is to hold a BOR & inform the Scout AND his parents that if his behavior doesn't do a 180 then Eagle is out of the question. Give the Scout a time frame to get his behavior turned around & stick to it! Also, inform the Scout AND his parents his behavior MUSTcontinue until he is no longer a member of the Troop.

[Beagle Scout]

"The function of the BoR is to determine advancement progress not to dole out punishment."

Since a BoR is a subset of the Troop Committee, that function can be allocated to the BoR.

[commish3]

That is a unique approach Beagle. I have looked in the Troop Committee Guide, the G2SS, and the Troop Committee Challenge training syllabus and I am unable to find any such process as you described. However there is reference made to the process I described earlier.

Could you share where you got your information from please?

[Beagle Scout]

It is a given that the BoR is a subset of the troop committee, right? That's pretty much the definition of the make up of a BoR.

Since it is unlikely that any discussion with the parents and Scouts would include the entire committee, that discussion happens with a subset of the committee. In fact, you could even form a Discipline Sub-committee which would be a subset of the troop committee and could be the BoR.

If it isn't prohibited, it is permitted.

[Rick Tyler]

"The function of the BoR is to determine advancement progress not to dole out punishment."

Since a BoR is a subset of the Troop Committee, that function can be allocated to the BoR.

Quite right. I imagine that what Commish meant was, "An advancement BoR is for advancement. A separate BoR should be held for discipline problems."

I would, however, follow the process outlined in the Scoutmaster's handbook. Start with a review and meeting with the PLC. A boy-led troop should try to handle behavior problems at the PL/SPL level first. If that doesn't help, have a Scoutmaster's conference. Only if it comes down to a serious discussion of expelling the boy from the troop should the committee get involved.

IMHO, your committee chair is jumping the gun. Encourage them to let the PLC discuss it first. You will probably be surprised at their solution.

[commish3]

I appreciate your effort Rick unfortunately that is not what I meant. The BSA program makes no reference to the use of the boad of review as a disciplinary tool. It is specifically a personal growth interview that is done either prior to confirm advancement or to find out why advancemnt is not taking place. There is no reference in any Boys Scout leader resource or in any Boy Scout leader training material for a BoR to be used to handle discipline.

What the Scouting program says is that if the board determines that all the requiremnets have not been satisfied according to the requirements of the rank then the scout is to be told which requirement was not met and what specific action must take place to complete the requirement.

As far as discipline the BSA says if the scout's actions endangers himself or others, or if his actions interfere with the delivery of the program he is to be sent home. In cases of repetitive bad behavior the scout and his parents are to meet with the troop committee to determine actions up to and including having his membership removed.

There is no such thing as a disciplinary BOR. Boards are meant to be a good thing, we need to be cautious about sending mixed messages to the scouts.

[Beagle Scout]

"Boards are meant to be a good thing"

Boards are neither a good thing nor a bad thing.

[Lynda J]

This is something our troop is going through right now. We are going to meet with a boys parents and tell them and him that he can not return to meetings and activities until his behaviour meets BSA Standards and he is willing to live by the Scout Laws.
This decission was made easier yesterday when I found out he was suspended from school for striking a teacher. This is the first time to my knowledge that he has been violent. But this is also the fear I have had since Camporee this past weekend.

But you can not remove a Rank that a boy has earned as a dicipline measure. Other than Eagle and only National can do that.

You can deny a boy rank if he is not living by the Scout Laws and Promise, since in each rank advancement that is one of the requirements.

[wagionvigil]

Linda I am sorry it came to that with the young man. But this is what we thought would happen. Where I am from Striking a School employee is a Felony Assult. It does not matter if it is a youth or an adult they are treated the same under the law. ALso under our state law once you are struck or assulted you have the right to do what ever it takes to defend yourself.Whatever it takes!! I always tell students that for every action there is a reaction of greater force.

[dad69]

Maybe suspended from school and kicked out of scouts might wake up the parents...........

[Lynda J]

I hope so. I see this boy in a juvenial facility, and that is the last place he needs to be. All that will do is increase the rage he already has.
I haven't spoken to the principle just yet. Just to one of the teachers I know well.
The sad thing is that under all this rage and anger there is a great kid wanting to get out. Hopefully this will force his parents to get him the counseling he so badly needs.

[wagionvigil]

Suspension itself usually does no good at all. It just gets them away from who they are lashing out at. Alternative school WITH Counseling at the PARENTS expense usually works. The public should not be liable for the counseling when the parents have to pay it usually wakes everyone up. I will almost bet that the parents will blame everyone else except the boy and themselves.
The Board will have to have an expulsion hearing and uin the end you the taxpayer will have to foot the bill for his behavior.

[Rick Tyler]

Suspension itself usually does no good at all. It just gets them away from who they are lashing out at. Alternative school WITH Counseling at the PARENTS expense usually works.

I'm not sure that a mom with three kids and a husband who split six years ago, and is trying to make it on a Wal-Mart clerk's income will find your plan motivating.

[wagionvigil]

It's not my plan it is from experience in these matters.

[AndrewMcHorney]

Hello

Thanks for the information so far. It has been very useful. I would like to clarify a few things. The boy's father is the Scoutmaster. The committee chairperson is his wife. The SPL is her son. The SPL is the stepson to the Scoutmaster and likewise the boy is the stepson to the Committee chair. The Committee chairperson was on one of the 2 activities where we had behaviour problems. The Scoutmaster could not attend either activities. The Committee chairperson was quite upset with his attitude and behaviour. This is why this is a tough situation.