Scoumaster's Key or Advisor's Key

[ThunderingWind]

The next award above the Scout Leader/Venture Leader Training is the Scoumaster's or Advisor's Key award.

The question has come up with regard to very active Assistant Scoutmasters and Associate Advisors earnign this award. The only thing that is keeping them out is that they do hold the Scoutmaster or Advisor position.

This is of course if you are reading the requirement literally. Emphasis MINE and MINE alone.

The SMs and "Senior" Advisor are all good people and are doing a great job.

Is there room in the regulations that allow the ASMs and AAs to earn the Key Award?

[riverwalk]

Nope. It is what it is. Remember the point is in doing the service, and requirements being met, the Award comes as a natural outcome IF you apply for it. It's not one of those given to you by others.

[ThunderingWind]

Bummer. We have one ASM and one AA in the Troop and Crew with which I am associated that meet everything except holding the top position.

It is a shame to leave these good, hard working people just because someone else is hold the job.

They both have setup and run parents nights, were active members as required to earnQualtiy Unit etc......

There must be another way to recognize their service.

I am a firm believer in showing public support for the other active leaders.

[wagionvigil]

There are awards for assistants etc. Keep Looking

[riverwalk]

Wagions point is the best point to be made. There are numerous Scout related recognitions for worthy Scouters. Additionally, there are as many others as your District/Unit has created. We're fortunate that people work to recognize those that don't qualify for an "official" BSA recognition.

[ThunderingWind]

There are awards for assistants etc. Keep Looking

I am not find them, to be honest. I see Council Silver Beavers and the Venturing Leadership Award, but these are limited by regulations to a quota system. Two adult VLAs per the rules for our Council.

One way to read the Key requirements is that it does NOT expressly or explicitly state the advisor to acutally be the "Senior" Advisor, not does it expressely or explicitly state the position of Associate Advisor is NOT to be earn the award.

[wagionvigil]

Scouters training Award

[ThunderingWind]

Scouters training Award

Yes, we've got than one down. I am looking for the next step. If the "Senior" Advisor or SM holds those position for years (as happens in many Troops and Crews), the Associate Advisors and ASMs would only be able to earn one award for their work while the SM and Advisor can get two.

Just trying to look deeper for a possible solution to what I perceive as an oversight by the Awards Development Branch in Texas.

[riverwalk]

If the Key is the concern, there are six groups people can qualify in. For the programs mentioned, only the top unit leader can qualify. Now if they also serve at a District level, they can qualify for it there, as long as tenure restrictions are observed.

[ThunderingWind]

If the Key is the concern, there are six groups people can qualify in. For the programs mentioned, only the top unit leader can qualify. Now if they also serve at a District level, they can qualify for it there, as long as tenure restrictions are observed.

Yes, the SM or Advisor Key is award in question. IMHO, I think it is an oversight to ignore the years of service to the ASMs and AAs by placing this limit on the award. These people put in the same effort as the Top person (in the cases I am concerned about).

I hope to find the proper BSA form to send to Texas to request a modification.

[riverwalk]

Changes have been made over the years in some categories. This one having been around so long might not be considered for changes, I can't know. But just contact them and determine the best course for submissions.

One method that might work, is asking your Council. Our Council accepts submissions to present at the National Meeting. I've submitted ideas in the past, for new recognitions that could result in a "knot" type recognition. One of these recently entered the program, though I may never know if my input was a factor. It's fun to think so . But the two I most recently recommended seemed worthy efforts IMHO.

[ThunderingWind]

Thank you. That is encouraging. I will start working on a proposal.

Expect to be asked to review it - those that post here.

[mhjacobson]

the Associate Advisors and ASMs would only be able to earn one award for their work while the SM and Advisor can get two.

Actually that is not true. The Scouters' Training Award is for committee members, committee chair, and ASM (and the Venture equivilents). The Scouters' Key is for SM (and the Advisor's Key is for Advisors, of course).

What happens in many cases is that a person serves as an ASM, earns the Traning Award, and then becomes the SM and then, subsequently earns the key.

[scoutaholic]

... The Scouters' Training Award is for committee members, committee chair, and ASM (and the Venture equivilents). The Scouters' Key is for SM (and the Advisor's Key is for Advisors, of course). ...

I've never heard that one before. Where did you get that idea. Can you point me to anywhere that it might be written?

I just looked at the requirements for the Scouters' Training Award, and there is nothing that specifies it being for only the positions you mention. In fact the Scoutmaster's Key requirements specifically say to earn the Boy Scout Leader's Training Award.

[riverwalk]

Yes, I think it was typically expected back in the day, that SM's would be involved long enough that they would get both met. Then in more recent years, the SAM was designed to recognize them sooner than required for the tenure of the others.

But like my example, if the PLC doesn't submit it, it doesn't get done.

[ThunderingWind]

What happens in many cases is that a person serves as an ASM, earns the Traning Award, and then becomes the SM and then, subsequently earns the key.

This is not always so. I am with a Crew that has a "brother" troop. This troop has had the same SM for nearly 15 years. Same for the Troop associated with the Pack when my son started as a Tiger.

So there is not always an opportunity to hold the SM position.

Yet, while reading the requirements for the Key, I note that in most cases an ASM could do all the requirements (as a division of labor among the adult leadership) for the award. The ONLY thing would be the time as SM.

So I am working on a proposal that would have the BSA change that one single requirement to read SM or ASM (Advisor or Associate Advisor for Crews) for those had working VOLUNTEERS who deserve some recognition.

I know there are other ways to offer recognition. I am looking at this as an additional opportunity for the BSA.