Problem with eletronic items on campout

[KB1KOI]

There's an issue within the troop that I preside, there is a zero tolorance on all eletronics, even including ham radio. It got to the point that at a campout this past may, I was operating in a friends tent (this after where in camp for the night before taps), Our scoutmaster walked by, asked the ASPL (the JL don't mind these things as long as nothing bad is happening) who was operating. He got me, brung me over to the scoutmaster fly (we are a large troop with appox. 60 boys and 30 adults/dads, mine included) and almost chewed me out. He stated that there is no place for a radio on a scout trip. I remarked that I had a right to operate (since I have an active licence to). He said back to be that I had a right to stay home. Im surpirsed that he this kind of attuide, since his dad is a ham and his son (a friend of mine) wants to get licenced himself. Did anything like this happend with any of you?

[BM_Crawford]

I'm sorry for my ignorance lol, but what is a ham?

And second question (might be answered by the first), Is this a talking radio or a music radio?

Sorry for all the questions. I tend to get confussed with online text from time to time.

[cballman]

well if it uses batteries like a radio, cell phone, gameboy, or any other handheld device the YES it should not be taken on a scout outing unless it is a verry long trip which is over two hours. there is exceptions was it told in advance that it was a hamfest? if not then yes it should have been taken away right then and there. NO QUESTIONS as to why. and to answer a question that you might have YES my son has had his gameboy taken away on an outing and he was made to apoligize to the scout leader wh took it away by his mother and I.

[riverwalk]

Sorry to borrow the movie line, haha. This has come up in here before, and this will be just one Scouter's perspective.

First, if the Troop says no electronics on the outing.....members should know the policy, and the pre-outing inspection of gear should reveal it. Secondly, a thing can be very different if it's in your Unit's emergency plan to have and use equipment for emergencies. And then it can also be extended to official programs like JOTA, our annual opportunity (locally we have extra opportunities) to use Radio equipment.

I would suggest the Troop get together on the whole issue before future outings. Then there won't be any opportunity for almost gettin' chewed out. Perhaps the Leader felt disrespected as he has the Scouts' interest in mind, and is giving his time so Scouting can exist there. Speaking of Radios....this is all about "communicating" anyway.

[OldGreyBear]

Scouting should be about Cans, not Can'ts

[TCC7]

Our troop does a lot of high adventure wilderness area camping. Some of the places that we go do not have cell phone signals. The amateur radio offers a great way to communicate in case of an emergency. I have a licence and our scoutmaster also. We wouldn't attempt a trip like this without the radios. We also encourage the scouts to get their licenses. I'm not talking about those FRS radios either. By the way, other types of electronics are to be kept at home in our troop. They take away from the scouting experience.

[RWSmith]

KB1KOI,

Even though I believe such a policy is not only narrow-minded, as well as foolish, if it's the Troops' policy, then you, as a Scout are obligated to abide by it. Ah, but who, exactly sets Troop policy? Well, actually, the Patrol Leaders Council does that. And unless it's a safety or moral issue, the adults have no business whatsoever telling you what you can and can't take on a camping trip. However, with that being said, if my son's Troop is going camping, and they decide gadgets (other than ham gear) will be allowed on the trail, then I simply won't go.

Ham gear should not only be allowed on a Scouting trip, it should be encouraged, especially on the trail. And when used with proper discretion, it'll be a nusance to nobody and might come in right handy in being the very reason somebody's life gets saved. There are spots on the Appalachian Trail that I can't hit a cell tower; but from the same spot, I can hit repeaters in five states using my trusty ol' hand-held HTX-202, pushing less than 1 watt through a rubber duck! Show me an iPod that can do that! Yeah, didn't think so, Mr. Scoutmaster.

Your adult leaders are suffering from a bad case of ignorance, something we Scouters hate to be seen as. You know, "Be prepared!" and all that good stuff. Ham radio is a inter-active hobby; iPods aren't. And even though cell phones have become an absolute necessity, even to the point that they are taking posession our teenagers' very souls (Mu-oo-oo-oo-aaahh!), Ham radio is STILL your safest, most reliable bet in an emergency, especially when disaster strikes. So, leave my Cell Phone in the glove compartment? Sure, no problem. But, even if I never have to take it out of my pack, I'd be a fool to leave my H-T behind.

Suggestions:

--First, try to educate your adult leaders. Try to get them to allow ham gear, as a reasonable, educated exception to their "policy". Assure them that it'll be used appropriately, so as not to blight out the calls of nature. You know, birds, bear, stuff like that. Get the adults to browse that ARRL website and see how much they support Scouting and Ham radio working together.

--Second, it that fails, take it to your PLC, state your case and ask them to make a decision in your favor and to take that to the adults... respectfully, of course. That's as far as you should have to go. You and I know that your license to operate shows that you're trained, and respectful of your use of your two-way radio. This ain't 11 meters, ya' know?! But, don't expect your adult leaders to understand the difference between the two without educating them. So, educate them. Invite a speaker from the local ARES, RACES, MARS, or whatever club. Get your fellow Scouts interested in the Radio MB.

--Third, if all else fails, and you're really unhappy about it, consider looking for another Troop. Yeah, you heard me. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH ADULTS RUNNING YOUR TROOP, NEVER BE AFRAID TO TRANSFER TO ANOTHER TROOP. Fortunately though, it seems that your adult leaders aren't that way, just about ham radio. Nothing wakes up a narrow-minded Scoutmaster faster than a near-Eagle respectfully informing him that he's looking for another Troop, one where the boys call the shots.

KG4ALV

[cballman]

I stand corrected on some points. If you are going on a trail where there is a possibilty of someone getting hurt then by all means take your radio. BUT make sure that just because you have dont use it unless you need it for an emergancy. now other than get mad use this as a learning tool to use to educate your troop on the needs for ham radio operators. I just wish we had a ham operator in our troop for the knowledge and help that he could give.

[JazerNorth]

In our Troop, we say no electronics, but we use case by case judgements. Game Boys, iPods, and all entertainment will never happen. Communication Radios, I would probably be OK with, since they are not realy toys, but more tools. I allowed an alarm clock at Summer Camp so that the Boy could wake early, since he takes a bit longer than the rest to get ready.

I think the ruls for electronics should be firm with entertainment gagets, but with useful tools, it should be allowed. I take my GPS unit on most scout trips, and would be glad if any of my scouts wanted to take one. I have my cell phone, and will let the boy take a cell phone, but he cannot use it unless in an emergency.

Basically electronics for communication = good, electronics for play = bad.

Just my little thought.

JazerNorth

[riverwalk]

Good point Challman. Most Troops/Crews aren't blessed with HAMS, unless it's on their menu. But these folks are all over, and supporting local emergency efforts.....and doing annual things with Scouts anyway. Perhaps you can recruit another Scouter from their ranks, or partner with them on certain outings. Just think outside the box.

Bottom line really, is that these things (your Unit policies) are all prepared ahead of time, and known by the members. Then any issue is minimized.

[OldGreyBear]

Why not accept the challenge of the Ipods and construct a program that would induce the scouts to leave the 'lectronics at home as there would be no time for it?

[Lynda J]

Let me understand this.
1) You troop has a policy of no electronics on camping trips and this includes ham radios.
2) You are aware of this policy. Since you state that you are "just shy of Eagle", I would assume that you have been in this troop for a while.
3) You chose to sneak a radio in and got caught operating it after lights out. You got caught and got in trouble.
4) You are upset that you got in trouble.

You made a choice to knowingly violate troop policy. What other troop or BSA policies do you chose to violate?

OUr troop has a no electronics policy and this included boys taking cell phones on camping trips. When we camp at least two leaders do have phones for emergency use only. Game boys have no place on camping trips.

What we do is once a year we have a Game Campout. We use one of our council facilities and the boys can bring their gameboys, gamecubes, what ever. The only thing is that they need to submit the games they are bringing. No overt violence and such. The only thing other than games that we do on this camping trip is cook. Funny thing is that sometime during the day we lose all the boys to a hike. It isn't that the adults say you should hike. But the boys get it together and spend at least an hour or so out hiking. They come back.

[KB1KOI]

Let me understand this.
1) You troop has a policy of no electronics on camping trips and this includes ham radios.
2) You are aware of this policy. Since you state that you are "just shy of Eagle", I would assume that you have been in this troop for a while.
3) You chose to sneak a radio in and got caught operating it after lights out. You got caught and got in trouble.
4) You are upset that you got in trouble.

You made a choice to knowingly violate troop policy. What other troop or BSA policies do you chose to violate?

1st of all, I just got my licence about two years ago (Dec 03), I just got my radio last year, and just started rellay useing it this.

2nd it wasn't after light out, it probably about 9:00-9:30, since it was dark, but nobody said it was taps

What makes me wonder is, isn't one of the idea's of scouting is to explore?
Using a Com Radio to try and contact a person 500 miles away (I haven't done this yet) , while learning how to make a good high gain attenna, and using the lowest possible, is exploration. I argee with most of you about what eletronics should be allowed, and which shouldn't. Would a list like this be a good standard most troops should go by?

Eletronics
TV's, Vcr's, DVD- NO
Computer's- Adults only (for record keeping)
One way radio (commerical)- Adults only (for news and wheather)*
MP3/IPOD, CD, Tape deck- NO
Gameboys, PSP, Other handheld games- NO
Cell Phone- Adults only
GPS, Othe nav systems- YES
Two way Radio- YES

*= Special scout event such as Jambo, Scout are allowed to bring radios

PS- I wanted to bring up the issue the the last time we review the by-laws (The troop reviews them two times a year during campouts, TOW, Troop Operation workshop, in Sept, and Yawgoog Cabins in Jan). The only thing was, last sept, the campout was cancelled because of EEE and west nile, then in Jan, the troop had to bug out from Yawgoog because of the coming billizard.

[momma_bee]

Our troops policy is if you bring it, it is your responsiblity and if you lose it, it is your responsibility. (It - electronic gear)

The result? Our SPL sitting in a tent with headphones on while 3 first year scouts were arguing. Now, as a leader, I ended it and resolved it and then the SPL asked what was up.

My point is that allowing the electronics can provide a distraction. SPL could have led the boys to resolution (rather than a grown-up doing it) and an oppertunity to lead, teach and learn was passed up.

For a song.

[JoAnne J]

you said you got your license in (03) great. That still doesn't change Troop policy.
You also said it wasn't lights out. Still isn't right. If you had thought it was you would have had your radio set up in the middle of camp so that all could have listened.

If your troop has this policy wouldn't the better thing have been to go to your SM and ask "for this campout you would like to bring your radio so you and the other Scouts could see what you hear." He may have said no or he could have surprised you and said yes.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

What about a boy with severe ADD and when his fuse is lit, can be a real distraction and hazard to himself and others. BUT, if pulled aside for a few minutes and allowed to use his gameboy, he can pull himself out of his mood and continue without a problem?

[wagionvigil]

rewarding bad behavior?

[ICanCanoeCanU]

No, a proven method of handling this particular boy. And keeping more peace and harmony within the troop because of it.

[riverwalk]

Well, we do find extreme situations, though it should ideally be figured out ahead of time with family (and they with their Doc), what a best case fix is to the episode.

I was fortunate in one respect, prior to the YPT program. Our family friends' son was a sleep walker. I often kept him in a Leader's tent with me, and I don't think I ever lost him. True, his parent would have to attend these days, to do what I did. But it was an unusual case.

[RWSmith]

Lots of good perspectives in this thread. I've really enjoyed the variety everyone has brought to make it so interesting. FWIW, KB1KOI would not be the first Ham Radio operator to be told by a Scoutmaster (and then shocked to learn) that a "No Electronics" policy existed, and that it included Ham radio gear.