Problem with eletronic items on campout

[TCC7]

Well, I guess if you want to enforce this rule to the max, you need to look at all the violations. It's going to be hard to get all these scouts to the trailhead without using all those electronics in your car or van, because they are jam packed with electronics. A major violation. Better pack your mule.

Linda J says

The manor in which this scout took his radio to camp was the same as if he has snuck in a gameboy. It was taken basically as a toy. He did not get permission to take it and it was in no way being used as an emergency piece of equipment.

You assume a lot. Without being there, you don't know anything about what this boy was doing. He stated he was showing a friend how it works. The friend wants to persue his licence. Sounds like he was teaching. By the way, you don't play any games on a ham radio as if it were a toy. Maybe he was fulfilling one of the requirements for Radio Merit Badge by establishing a CQ and maintaining it for ten minutes. Sounds like a scout trying to better himself.

If a boy is breaking a rule and does it to better himself and has the possibility of helping others at the same time, maybe that rule should be broken. I think I remember some other rule breakers. Gandi, King, all the signers of the Declaration of Independence. Civil Disobedience: can't have that kind of thing around here.

KG4YVF

[cballman]

ok without being a bad person here then what some of you are saying is that it dont matter what rule or rules the kids break then its ok and we shouldnt worry about the rules. or its ok for the older boys to break them but not the younger ones. so then lets forget about the rules and and let it be a free for all and no structure at all as the BSA program will run its course.

[DadScout]

Just a few comments here -

Civil Disobedience - Great examples of heros in our life time & in history who rose above oppression to make lasting change. The key here is the oppression they were under. Even MLKjr, though living in a free society, had to operate under rules that were not even among those in the society. Plus they all worked up to Civil Disobediance, not started with it. Given the operating environment - boys, group settings, outside, possible dangers - we should not promote Civil Disobediance as a matter of course.

The rules - Under the best senario are set by the boys (PLC) with the blessing and guidance of the adult leaders. We can all quibble over what's an electronic device and interpret our own meaning of electronic device. But the rule was "no electronics" and it looks like that was knowingly violated. If you don't like the rules then work to change them. Tell the SPL or SM ahead of time you'd like to bring something and would give a demonstration. Get the PLC to modify the rule to differentiate electronic toys/games from electronic tools. Try to make change first, not just disregard rules that you don't think apply to you. Yes you have a license to operate a ham. I have a license to operate a car but I'm not parking it next to my tent.

What is electronics anyway - Let's not get picky and include flashlights, led lights, and such. Most of us would include any "active" device as electronic - radios, GPS, gameboys, MP3 or DVD players, laptops, PDAs, ect. I think the normal concept is to not intrude on the outdoor experience. So radios for enjoyment only, MP3, DVD, gameboys all fall into that. Tools like GPS, ham radio (yes there's a fun element to it), PDA (record keeping), NOAA radios, are tools that can make the outdoor experience safer or are helpful aids. The PLC, with guidance from the SM, would set the list of approved devices and when they can be used. Ex: our boys are allowed small radios with headfones - Only in your tent during siesta type periods.

.

[BM_Crawford]

You've got to be kidding me your comparing wanting to pull out your gameboy around the campfire to the liberation of an entire race of people.

Sure if you have a just cause and your body of government won't listen to you and your freedoms are being hindered then fight, I'll stand with you. But just cause your a little cranky because you borke the rules, well thats a completely different story.

[RWSmith]

Well, even with the hotly contested points of view, I've still enjoyed everbody's input. A little bit of a 'hot potato' this one turned out to be. Quite a lesson in how we are all so different, unique. How hard we sometimes have to work to makes things work for the group, as well as the individual. Kumbayah, y'all!

KG4ALV

[WebForging]

Scouting should be about Cans, not Can'ts

You're right.

Scouts and Scouters CAN be free of electronics for a weekend.

Scouts and Scouters CAN enjoy the people and things in their immediate surroundings without distraction.

Hope you don't mind, just think it is positive to have a policy freeing members from common, non-camping clutter.

YIS,
Keith

[JazerNorth]

Wow, I didn't know that electronics in camp was so controversial.

As I read all the posts in the thread, I wonder why it is so controversial? I thought this thread was very informative in helping leaders guide their boys in the use of electronics in camp. Now it seems to have gotten quite personal. It is as if the electronics were a part of the body, and it was going to be removed with a pair of dull scissors.

I am interested to know why it is so important to some as to why they must have electronics in camp? I am also interested to know why some are so adamant against it?

Please provide your responses with the interest of the boys in the Boy Scouts taken into account. Once responses are all done, Moderator, I think that this thread can be closed. It has gotten very personal in the above threads.

Thanks.

JazerNorth

[Scouting179]

The problem with electronics is that many, if not most, kids are so addicted to them that it takes away from the program. This is why so many people are against them.

This is true with anything, not just electronics, that takes away from the program. Our SM banned the Magic card game for this very reason.

Campouts, etc are set up to further the Scouting program, not so that we babysit for their paretns while they are ignoring the program doing what they'd be doing back at home.

[DadScout]

I have no body parts that are electronic. But the only way you're getting my PDA is to pry it from my cold dead hand

Joking aside, the electronics I personally bring is a NOAA radio & my cell phone. The phone is normally off as the last thing I want is work calling me when I'm not on call. It's only used to check in with my better half and for emergencies.

In general our troop looks at most non-tool electronics as a distraction from the program or a safety issue. An ex of the safety issue is a hike where one of the boys has headphones on and can't hear the others on the trail. Small walkman size radios are permitted in camp during down times, but that's it. I don't think I've heard any boy complain about the rules. After all, they had a big part in making the rules.

The feeling I get, from most of the boys & adults, is that they went camping to camp and do things outdoors. Hike, outdoor games, campfires (with the same stories you've heard 10 times).

[cballman]

yes everyone is right and everyone wrong on this issue. we need to make sure that the program is being taught. yes we still need to look at "troop rules" and make sure that they dont interfere with the program. we just need to make sure that we voice our opinion and not get personal with the issues at hand or yes the threads will be shut down as soon as noted. this board and people WILL NOT TOLERATE the personal attacks and if they continue the offending parties will be asked to refrain from the attacks or they will asked to leave the board. period no questions asked.

[Mrw]

We don't allow the games and personal CD players or radios as they tend to cause problems. (Problems include jealousy between haves and have nots!) We are also camping to see the great outdoors and do something different than what the boys do at home. Cell phones are not to be brought by the boys. The leaders will have a phone or two about for emergencies.

I don't think we have any boys interested in HAM radio, but if it were used only for the enjoyment of one boy, it would fall under the banned category. If it were for emergency use or a demonstration for the troop, it would almost certainly be allowed.

Basically tools are okay and toys are not. We prefer frisbees and balls, etc if they want toys!

[ICanCanoeCanU]

yes everyone is right and everyone wrong on this issue. we need to make sure that the program is being taught. yes we still need to look at "troop rules" and make sure that they dont interfere with the program. we just need to make sure that we voice our opinion and not get personal with the issues at hand or yes the threads will be shut down as soon as noted. this board and people WILL NOT TOLERATE the personal attacks and if they continue the offending parties will be asked to refrain from the attacks or they will asked to leave the board. period no questions asked.

It seems obvious that this thread has touched a nerve for some, but I question why everytime a topic gets heated, the need to shut it down comes in? I don't see where people are personnally attacking each other? Seems like folks have strong opinions on this one but I for one always look forward to reading these "hot topics" as I learn greatly from how others view issues. Sometimes I need to see something in a different light to be able to open my mind for it. Please don't lock each thread because folks don't agree.

[wagionvigil]

Disagree Yes personal attacks NO

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Disagree Yes personal attacks NO

? Not sure what you are saying?

[wagionvigil]

it is natural to disagree and we will allow that BUT when a disagreement becomes personal then we the moderators will do something.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

thanks for the explanation - sorry, I didn't get it the first time.

Yes, I can see your point, just didn't see where it got that out of hand. Like I said, sometimes I benefit from seeing other sides.

[Chief J]

I am interested to know why it is so important to some as to why they must have electronics in camp? I am also interested to know why some are so adamant against it?

I do not allow electronics in camp for many reasons, the first and foremost of which is I do not appreciate angry parents calling me on Sunday afternoon after returning home from camping to yell at me that Joe Scout lost a fifty dollar game boy game and what am I going to do about it.

And before anyone says anything, Yes we told kids and adults that yhese items are personal and not my responsibility.

Chief J

[Rick Tyler]

I do not allow electronics in camp for many reasons, the first and foremost of which is I do not appreciate angry parents calling me on Sunday afternoon after returning home from camping to yell at me that Joe Scout lost a fifty dollar game boy game and what am I going to do about it.

I haven't had that one, but I do have a standand answer for similar queries: "I think you're right, and we need more adult mentors on outings. The next round of Assistant Scoutmaster training starts in two weeks -- can I sign you up?" It has an amazing calming effect on angry mommies and daddies.

[jk]

This is such a simple issue.
A ham radio can very easily save a life in an emergency.
It is also educational because of its ability to talk to a person all over the world.
We allow cd players on our backpacking venture trip simply because all of the kids have had enough "nature time" to know that sometimes laying in a hammock listening to the birds is great. The young men on these trips have been scouting for a minimum of 3 years. In recent years one of the boys brought a speaker and on layover day they danced to techno music all night.

++++AHHH, The Joy of Scouting++++

[deweylure]

electronmics in camp just became easier. I nhave seen tents with solar cells and packs that use the Faraday Principle to create power.

I still agree electronics should be at home except for a leader with a cell and a weather radio.

Dewey