Tenderfoot Physical Fitness Requirement

[ThunderingWind]

I can not find any written documentation pertaining to the BSA way to run the test(s). And by this I mean proper pushup form, situps with hands behind head or on chest (as is being taught in school PE now), how many minutes rest between events, proper commmands and instruction to give the boys for the whole test and for each event.

I ask because I am coming from a military background where things like this are highly controlled.

Also, things like how much chin lift to allow on pull ups for it to count. Personally, I think the head needs to remain straight up and no lifting. Hand grip is a personal choice.

For the 1/4 mile walk/run, how many people are required to be around the track for safety? Do we need an EMT (per BSA rules or general Risk Management rules).

[JazerNorth]

One thing to remember is thy are young men that are still developing physically and may not be able to do it 'properly'. See what they can do, then expect improvement. It might be that their improvement is that they do do a chin lift, complete 1/2 a pull up. Then the follow up they do a full pull up with a chin lift. That is improvement, therefore it should count. We can't expect the boys to do things like physically developed men. Each boy will be unique. I have one that can scale walls and climb doors using finger tips, and another that can barely do one pushup. Each is expected to improve, yet the weaker one isn't expected to improve the same rate as the stronger one.

Remember, they are young and physically developing.

Enjoy.

JazerNorth

[evmori]

It's up to you how you want to set this up. And as Jazer posted, remember these are young kids and this isn't the Marines.

[EagleBoy62204]

actually, i belive there is something in the tenderfoot section of the current book...or was it last edition that it was in? i remember when i was tenderfoot some 6 years ago, that there were certain ways that the book showed to do each requirement.

Pushups in my troop for that requirement our arms were always cross chest. I had the chance to watch my trainer for my physical rehab for my arm show me an easier way for push ups...which may help the kids that young, it is instead of being positioned off the feet for a push up, have them go from the knees. This way (from what ive been told) its less weight that is straining them and it works the arm muscles more. PLus they can get more out of it. I have yet to try it with my first year group because they already have that requirement.

[ThunderingWind]

These are all good suggestions.

However, I am asking for a chapter and verse quote from some BSA document that has passed all the legal checks that state how to properly execute the fitness test.

Do I need an EMT? How big is the pull up bar? Does it ahve to be metal or is wood allowed?

I know what the G2SS tells me but additional risk management training says there has to be more to protect the boys.

[Lynda J]

You will find very little "chapter and verse" in scouting. Lots of things are left up to the leaders.

You have to use common sense. Use a pole for the pull ups that the boys can get their hands around. For the situps we have one boy hold the feet of another. and we use pushups from the knee. Remember you aren't making body builders out of them. You are simply wanting them to improve over their first attempts.

[ThunderingWind]

No BSA, legally certified documentation...How can this be?

BSA MUST, MUST, MUST protect itself and the youth it serves.

Common sense is always over-ruled in our legal system.

[evmori]

This isn't rocket science. Follow what the Boy Scout Handbook states. If it isn't in there use common sense! You are making this way too hard. The pull up bar metal or wood? If I were you I would find someone else to handle this requirement. And you don't need an EMT.

[ThunderingWind]

No EMT, why?

Show me in any BSA document where it would be clearly defined that an EMT is NOT required.

The risk management package directed by many of Charter Orgs would tell me otherwise. The risk managment package that is required here for YMCA, YWCA, Awana youth program clearly state an EMT it required for this. The schools around here are now required to have an EMT/Paramedic on staff (one per some many kids and buildings) along with an LPN/RN at each school.

There has got to be better, more clearly defined BSA regulations on every activity in which the youth particpate.

I agree that common sense should be used. However, when you can get $6 million for spilling coffee on yourself because you are putting on makeup and talking on your cell phone while driving just because the coffee cup was not sold with warning label on it stating "Do not drive while......" then we as leaders and sworn protectors of our youth have an obligation to provide an even safer environment.

We even have to go so far as announcing our highway clean ups every day for 30 days and pay a highway security firm to block the roads to keep the boys safe.

[cballman]

ed first thing we need to do is sit down logically look at the questions you raise. if you need an EMT for scouts then why dont the schools have one on staff because they do the same thing? then you have to look at the age group that we are talking about 8-13. now call the local EMS officals and see how many kids in that age group that they have had to work on and transport that was doing the same thing. Now the part that going to have hurt feelings and Iam sorry for this but we are working with kids and if you are going to push the kids that far and possibly hurt one of them then maybe you need to sit down and rethink some of the decisions that you have made. yes we can be sued for anything but remember that most parents would be glad to stay with you when you ask for help. if anything goes wrong thats why we have TWO-DEEP leadership. so now sit down, look at the requriements but remember like evmori said " this is not rocket science " so dont look for every bad thing to happen it dont. somethings will happen and yes I have had to meet people in the emergency room and met people to take kids there. no lawsuits still friends and kids will do anything i will ask because they know I care about them.

[wagionvigil]

There is crazyness in the air

[evmori]

edbloom,
You are taking this way out of proportion. These are simple exercises. The risk is minimal. If you feel there is a need for an EMT then there is a problem.

I can't actually believe someone is suggesting there should be requirements for the composition of the pull up bar & wants an EMT present! The boys in this Troop will never get past Boy Scout at this rate!

Show me where the BSA states an EMT is required!

[Mrw]

If the water safety requirements don't require the presence of an EMT, then why in the world would this activity?

If your schools truly require an EMT to be on staff along with a nurse, they are in a real minority. Our schools have 3-4 nurses spread between 5 schools and that meets all state/local requirements.

[ThunderingWind]

All you bring good points to the discussion. And I personally AGREE with them. This is NOT rocket science and common sense should prevail.

However, we live in an area that puts a higher standard across the community. There is now requirement to have a doctor at all sportnig events because one youth died of an undiagnosed heart condition that some lawyer argued the sports physical should have detected.

Part of my asking the question is because there is no defined manner in which to execute the test. Should push ups be on the knees for all boys or case by case? Should the sit ups be hands behind the head of crossed arms on the chest?

But in this community there looms a larger elephant in the room. And if the simpler questions are clearly defined, then the elephant does not get as upset.

BTW, evmori, all wooden playsets are banned in our community because of the healt danger posed by splinters and the chemicals used to treat the wood. This even applies to private playsets in the the back yard.

[wagionvigil]

There is crazyness in the Air

[wagionvigil]

I have a real problem with all this. Kids today are very sheltered and that is not a good thing. Parents do not allow them towalk in the bear feet out side, they are not allowed in the sun, They never play on wooden things, They get to advance by doing their best even though they did not make the requirements, everyone makes the team and gets to play, everyone makes the cheerleading squad evn though they cannot cheer and cannot do any of the required moves. A, C in school is now considerd failing not average. I guess I flunked out of school and College and Two Masters degrees.
Come on here get a grip on things. Leave kids be kids.
I ask a question during every MB class I instruct. WHo has never been stung by a bee? You would not believe over 60% have never been.
Oh one more thing we are drugging our boys to stop normal male behavior. If I was a kid today you would have me so drugged up I would be non functional. Of course that is what alot of parents want so they do not have to be a parent.
Venting!

[Lynda J]

I can tell you from experience that most schools do not require an EMT.
Our school lost a campus police officer last year to a heart attack. Guess what there was no one that knew CPR. Now it was a massive attach and even with CPR there would have been little chance he would have survived but at least he would have had a better chance.
Kevin's idea for his Eagle project is to see if the school won't have two CPR classes a year for students. I personally don't think he will get it past the School Board but I will support him in his effort to try.

For our pullups we used a large wooden tent pole between two chairs.
the boys had to pull themselves from a prone position. This is how they start at school then they progress to a standing pullup. Worked great.

But don't make these things harder than they were intended to be.

[Mrw]

For pull-ups, our troop uses a pipe that runs through the kitchen of the church we meet at. Some of the little kids need to be lifted up and down. That is what the older boys are for!

And I got my first bee sting as an adult. I guess because I was lucky since we spent all summer outside in bare feet.

My kids have been less sheltered than many others they know and they appreciate that they learned how to walk, bike ride or take the bus to places their friends couldn't go without a parent. I know they are able to take care of themselves better, especially if they end up in an unfamiliar city or a not as good neighborhood.

[evmori]

I'm with wagonvigil on this. Let kids be kids! So they get a cut or scrape or bruise. Big deal! They are kids! They will live! And get a lot more cuts & scrapes & bruises!

[Lynda J]

I agree. Kevin worked at the shop all summer. He cut his finger replacing a thermostat on a car. He went and got a bandaid and put it on as I was reminding him not to bleed on the customers car or I would ring his neck.

We are seeing a lot more kids with all kinds of health problems. Well guess what we are antibactering them to the point that their bodies don't know how to fight things off any more.

My wonderfully wise Gran use to say. "A KID NEEDS TO EAT A PECK OF DIRT A MONTH JUST TO BE HEALTHY" Though I don't know about eating the dirt the meaning was "Kids need to get dirty"