old MB requiements

[scout_sdad]

Is there a source of out-of-date merit badge requirements? like an archive of the curerent requirements list? I am working with several scouts who started MB's under earlier requirements and several scouts who have summer camp-reported partial MBs which apparently used non-current requirements ( at least the numbering system doesn't match the current list). Are the old requirements archived anywhere?

Thanks
Scout's dad

[Rick Tyler]

Is there a source of out-of-date merit badge requirements?

This Website doesn't have them since the beginning of time, but it probably goes back far enough for what you want: http://www.usscouts.org/meritbadges.asp.

[riverwalk]

...got me that time, haha. I first thought the question was about MB requirements of long ago. I was ready to dig through some oldies I've collected...then I realized he was hoping for more recent, but non-current items. Oops.

[Scouting179]

Generally, when MB requirements change, they have to 1 Jan of the next year to finish the old requirements. Then they have to switch to the new ones.

[scout_sdad]

What I could find on usscouts.org was a revision list for MBs, showing specific edits for cases of smaller changes, but for major rewrites it would simply state that the requirements where completely rewritten, and the new requiremnts are ..., no indication of what the old requirements had been. Am I looking at the wrong place at usscouts?

I am confused about the effect of a change in the requirements. Scouting179 says "Generally, when MB requirements change, they have to 1 Jan of the next year to finish the old requirements. Then they have to switch to the new ones." But http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/boysco ... eling.html says:
"Once you start working with a Scout, if the requirements change, you should continue to use the requirements in effect when the Scout began, unless the SCOUT desires to use the new requirements. However, if he wishes to use the new requirements, he must use ALL of the new requirements. He may not pick and choose a selection from the old and new requirements."
Is there a time limit on the use of outdated requirements?

Thanks for the help
Scout's dad

[scout_sdad]

I jumped too quickly with that last reply. I fould the Old Requirements link at usscouts. That's just what I needed. Thanks
Scout's dad

[PaulSWolf]

What I could find on usscouts.org was a revision list for MBs, showing specific edits for cases of smaller changes, but for major rewrites it would simply state that the requirements where completely rewritten, and the new requiremnts are ..., no indication of what the old requirements had been. Am I looking at the wrong place at usscouts?

I am confused about the effect of a change in the requirements. Scouting179 says "Generally, when MB requirements change, they have to 1 Jan of the next year to finish the old requirements. Then they have to switch to the new ones." But http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/boysco ... eling.html says:
"Once you start working with a Scout, if the requirements change, you should continue to use the requirements in effect when the Scout began, unless the SCOUT desires to use the new requirements. However, if he wishes to use the new requirements, he must use ALL of the new requirements. He may not pick and choose a selection from the old and new requirements."
Is there a time limit on the use of outdated requirements?

Thanks for the help
Scout's dad

First of all, as for a deadline, Scouting179 is incorrect, there is NO deadline, except the Scout's 18th birthday. For RANK requirement changes, there are always specific deadlines, but NOT for merit badges.


As for your other comments, I'm the Scouter who maintains the advancement areas on the usscouts.org site so I should be able to clarify things.

You appear to be looking at the wrong place. You're probably looking at the section of http://usscouts.org/meritbadges.asp headed "Recent Revisions to Merit Badges and Boy Scout Advancements" If you go to one of the pages in that section, such as 2005 MIDYEAR Advancement Changes http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/advchanges05a.html you see changes since the 2005 edition of Boy Scout Requirements. That page shows what's changed for a large number of merit badges, all in one place, as you describe (i.e. either a line by line listing of what changed, or a statement that the requirements were completely revised, followe by the new requirements. However, you can get to pages for the individual merit badges by clicking on the merit badge name or image in the body of the page (i.e. just above the list of changes or the statement "The requirements were completely rewritten, and now read as follows:").

If you open the page for a specific merit badge, either as I just described, or directly from either http://www.usscouts.org/meritbadges.asp, or http://usscouts.org/mb/framesindex.html you will see the current requirements for that badge. For any badge revised since 2000, If there are minor changes from the previous requirements, I have links to both the previous requirements and a line by line list of the specific changes. When the changes are major, although I don't prepare a line-by line description of what specific changes were made, I still have a link to the older version of the requirements.

Although I've been preparing the summaries of changes annually since 1995, I did not keep copies of the old requirements on-line prior to 2000. Although I do have copies of Boy Scout Requirements dating back to at least 1982, I can actually personally research back that far if asked. However, since any Scout currently under 18 has to have joined some time since 1999, and probably wouldn't have been actively working on a merit badge that far back, what's on-line should be more than adequate.

If you look, for example, at http://usscouts.org/mb/mb085.html (Plant Science), you'll see just below the title, the following:

REQUIREMENTS were COMPLETELY REWRITTEN
with the release of a new merit badge pamphlet during 2005.

Click Here for the OLD requirements.

If you click on the text "Click Here for the OLD requirements.", you'll be taken to the previous requirements.

OTOH, for Reptile and Amphibian Study, http://usscouts.org/mb/mb096.html which had just some minor changes, the page shows:

REQUIREMENTS were REVISED
with the release of a new edition of the merit badge pamphlet during 2005

To see the changes which were made in 2005, Click here.

Click Here for the OLD requirements.

Clicking on the first "Click Here" gives you the changes, while the second link gives you the old (unchanged) requirements again.

[scout_sdad]

Thanks Paul!!! What a great service to the Scoutting community. I, and I'm sure all other scouters, REALLY appreciate this resource that you provide. Its great to have a Scouter with your dedication to maintain this organized source if information so we can spend more time working with the boys.

Scout's dad

[Scouting179]

Paul Wolf:

Are you saying if a Scout starts an MB in 2002 at age 11, the requirements for it change in 2003, that he has until he's 18 in 2009 to complete it using the 2002 (vice latest 2003) requirements??

[PaulSWolf]

Paul Wolf:

Are you saying if a Scout starts an MB in 2002 at age 11, the requirements for it change in 2003, that he has until he's 18 in 2009 to complete it using the 2002 (vice latest 2003) requirements??

Yes.

See the following letter from the BSA Director of Boy Scout Advancement:

http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/mb-memo.gif

And to Scout's Dad: Thanks for the compliments. Don't forget Mike Kaufmann, (Optimist) who runs this web site for us all.

[evmori]

Paul is exactly correct!

Once a Scout starts a MB, he uses those requirements that were in place when he started. If they change 5 times before he finishes the badge it makes no difference.

The only time I think the Scout would have to use the new requirements is if he lost his blue card & had to start all over.

[Scouting179]

Paul Wolf:

Are you saying if a Scout starts an MB in 2002 at age 11, the requirements for it change in 2003, that he has until he's 18 in 2009 to complete it using the 2002 (vice latest 2003) requirements??

Yes.

See the following letter from the BSA Director of Boy Scout Advancement:

http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/mb-memo.gif

And to Scout's Dad: Thanks for the compliments. Don't forget Mike Kaufmann, (Optimist) who runs this web site for us all.

This document is self-contradictory...on the one hand it says to use the most recent book (and hence requirements) but then it says even if the requirements change, you can use the ones you started with...doesn't make much sense to me, especially if you're talking several years and changes later.

[EagleBoy62204]

As long as you have the blue card, and its a partial, you can use the requirements up to your 18th birthday.

I know for a fact, that most of the councilors i know would challenge the boy to see if he still knew those requirements, expecially if he comes to a different councilor more than a year later.

[Lynda J]

If a scout has started a badge and new requirements come out before he has completed the badge work. He may chose which requirements he wants to do. But he must do either the old requirements or the new ones.
He can't use part of the old ones and part of the new ones. That is a good reason for troops to make sure they keep copies of old Merit Badge requirement books.

[Mrw]

If a scout has started a badge, HE should have a copy of the book. It should not be the troop's responsibility to keep track of the old books just in case some kid decides to finish a badge he started three years ago and the requirements changed.

Although I keep the old copies of the books when the requirements change, they are in a cabinet at home because we don't want some kid starting with old requirements and find out he did the wrong thing.

[ASM-142]

I agree with this. Also, if the scout does not have the old book and wants to continue, it should be his responsibility to find the old book. If he can not find them he should start over.

[SM270PAL]

Scouts do not have the option to finish under the old rules after the current year - each year the MB requirements book comes out - if you read in the front cover he must complete under new rules - requirements may be used if there are the same so he will not loose those but there are no old / new options. Take a look at the book.

[PaulSWolf]

Scouts do not have the option to finish under the old rules after the current year - each year the MB requirements book comes out - if you read in the front cover he must complete under new rules - requirements may be used if there are the same so he will not loose those but there are no old / new options. Take a look at the book.

Not according to the Director of Boy Scout Advancement. See the following letter: http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/mb-memo.gif

[JazerNorth]

I would expect the BSA to treat advancment and MB similar to the College Courses. If you start your Major using a certain catalog year, you get to finish with that catalog year. If you decide to change to a newer year, you can, but you must also completely follow the newer year. This method is used so that students can graduate on time. Otherwise, some majors wouldn't have graduates as they are always changing the major requirements each year.

The same would be expected from BSA. If you start on a MB or rank BEFORE the change, you have the option to keep using it, or completely move to the new requirements.

Enjoy.

JazerNorth

[SM270PAL]

Not according to the Director of Boy Scout Advancement. See the following letter: http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/mb-memo.gif

First this letter is 10 years old. Scouts have moved on and created, what I believe, is some clarity to this issue. Since 2000 a requirements book is published and when it comes out, usually in January, these are the requirements that are to be followed.

In 2001 I had an issue with an Eagle scout that had started a merit badge when and needed to finish the partial. This letter was brough up to me at that time. After consulting with the council I was informed that all merit badges (and ranks and other awards) needed to be completed under the new requirements. This was one of the clarification points of the rank modifications made April, 1999. Each year the requirements book is published and those are the set of requirements that need to be used when completing awards in that period. The BSA is in the process of reviewing all the merit badges. Many, many merit badges are undergoing changes, some are major, some are minor. Scouts may use any of the old requirments from a partial as long as the requirment is still there.

Edited one time by RWSmith to correct a syntax error.