Board of Review

[evmori]

Don't give up! Learn from this situation so this doesn't happen again. Quitting solves nothing. Stick it out! You unit will be better for it.

[Lynda J]

Don't bail on these kids. I think basically you are both good leaders, you simply made a mistake. You admit that and accept it. Now go forward and learn from that mistake. The best education we ever get in life is the chance to learn from our mistakes.
You did not start out to get this boy. But you did let him down by not supporting him in his position of responsibility. Fix it. Give him another position and make susre to give him the guidence he needs to fufill that position. You will all be the better for it. He will get a better understanding of how to lead and you have learned that you have to guide them.
Hang in there.

[don]

Did this scout attend PLC meetings?
If so was he not assigned things to teach at troop meetings or campouts?
What did you expect him to do if he was not assigned anything to do. Do you really expect an troop instructor to go to the ASPL to ask him what to teach? Should the troop PLC not be planning meetings during the PLC and assigning task. It sounds like this troop has a lot more going on than just failing to train the troop leadership.

If he did not attend PLCs, was he called by the ASPL and given his tasks to instruct. By your logic JJ the ASPL should not be credited for the leadership position either and then one more step up the ladder neither would the SPL.

Oh and by the way
Seppuku is a Japanese word that means ritual suicide by disembowelment. Is not the internet a great place!? I learned a new word today.

[ASM-142]

I admit that in an earlier post I stated that you and the SM must be prepared to step down. However, by you admitting your mistakes you can learn from it and become more valuable to the troop. Quiting does not solve anything and can make things worse.

[ASM-142]

A scout in my troop went before an Eagle BOR last night. The scouts parent and myself we going to sit in as observers of the BOR. The District told me that if we did not leave the room, he would leave and the BOR would not be conducted.

Can someone let me know what the regulations are as far as SM, ASM, and parents observing (not talking) Eagle BORs?

[wagionvigil]

SM is usually permitted to sit in as an observer and to answer any question that may arise. Parents are not to be there.
This is my understanding. I was Eagle Chair for a while and this is how we operated.

[ASM-142]

SM is usually permitted to sit in as an observer and to answer any question that may arise. Parents are not to be there.
This is my understanding. I was Eagle Chair for a while and this is how we operated.

Is there a policy from National that states that parents can not observe the questioning of there son?

[JazerNorth]

The BSA has an open door policy. Meaning that if a parent wants to sit in on any meeting, event, Order of the Arrow, etc. with his/her son, they can. There are NO secret meetings in the BSA. The parent cannot participate, but they must be allowed to be in any meeting where their son is in attendance.

JazerNorth

[Lynda J]

Parents don't sit in on Rank BOR in our troop. Even for Tenderfoot. I think that by the time a young man is sitting for his Eagle BOR it is time for his parents to turn loose and let him start standing on his own two feet without mommy and daddy holding his hand.
Much like when my kids were growing up and their Dr. suggested that at a certain age I let them go in on their own. That they need to start being able to explain how they feel in their own words and not worry about what mom or dad would say of think. Doing things on their own is part of growing up.
Do mom and dad sit in at school when he is taking a test. Don't think so.

[ASM-142]

I agree that parents need to let go as their son gets older. However, being able to observe (no talking or interferring) their son in action during his Eagle BOR can be very satisfying to a parent and has nothing to do with letting go.

[Mrw]

Although they may TECHNICALLY be allowed to sit in the Eagle BOR and observe, they DO NOT belong there!

The whole purpose of the BOR process is to allow the boy to represent himself. How can a boy be expected to be himself and show the board who he is and what he is about with Mom or Dad sitting there and watching? He will have in the back of his mind that they will be critiquing his performance on the way home.

Did this parent sit in on any other of the BOR's he had had?

Our SM sat in on one of my son's boards as a non-voting observer. Fortunately my son is very comfortable expressing himself and did not bite his tongue about offering ways to improve things when they asked if there was anything he would change in Scouts. He was having some issues with the guy who was still somewhat new to the troop. (I think the criticism helped them both and they get along better.)

[evmori]

When I was a SM, I sat in all the Eagle BOR's my Scouts had. I have never heard of a parent wanting to attend. If I was the Scout, I wouldn't want them there!

[ASM-142]

My question all along was is the SM, ASM, and/or parent allowed to sit on the Eagel BOR.

I have not seen any responses that specially say yes or no (and reference something to National). Is it the best situation for a parent to observe an Eagle BOR for their son - maybe - maybe not. However, if the Scout is comfortable with this and his parents requests this should they be turned down?

[wagionvigil]

No they cannot. I cannot give you where to find it but I am sure someene will.

[JazerNorth]

Regardless of someone's parenting of their scout or son, he is still their child. There are no, really none at all, secrets in the BSA. Therefore, if a parent or legal guardian, wishes to sit in on a BOR, then they can. They cannot participate in any way, but they can be there.

This is a concept that everyone needs to understand. The scouts may be able to do things on their own, but they are still children. If I go to a BOR for my son and the BOR committee says parents cannot attend, then I would ask them to put it in writing with their signatures. I wouldn't let my son do the BOR and take the issue as far up as need be to correct the issue. These scouts are children. If their parent says I want to be in the room, by all means, let them be in the room.

JazerNorth

[Lynda J]

I don't know about others districts but ours does not allow SM to sit on an Eagle BOR for a boy in their troop. I don't have my advancement book with me but I actually think that it states that SM can not sit on Eagle BOR for a scout in his troop.

I think that by the time a scout is going for Eagle he should be able to speak freely and not worry about what his parents will think. Not have to worry aboout when he leaves the room them saying "Why did you say that, why didn't you say this". I have no desire at all to sit in on Kevin's BOR for Eagle. As much joy as it would give me it should he his own challenge.

[wagionvigil]

It says they cannot be a member of the board. nothing about watching

[Rick Tyler]

Regardless of someone's parenting of their scout or son, he is still their child. There are no, really none at all, secrets in the BSA. (...) This is a concept that everyone needs to understand.

Thank you. This really cannot be repeated too often. This comes up in terms of the OA Ordeal all the time, too. I make a point of telling parents who's sons have been voted into the OA that I will answer any questions they have, that they are welcome to attend the Ordeal, and that there are no secrets in Scouting. I then explain why we don't want details of the Ordeal told to the Scouts in advance and ask them to keep it to themselves. So far, I've never actually heard of a non-Scouter parent attending an Ordeal.

[wagionvigil]

When I was Lodge Adv. We had a parent for both an Ordeal ceremony and a Vigil Ceremony I brought them into the back of the Ceremony Circle theough the woods and the Scout never new they were there.

[Mrw]

I think that by the time a scout is going for Eagle he should be able to speak freely and not worry about what his parents will think. Not have to worry aboout when he leaves the room them saying "Why did you say that, why didn't you say this".

While I agree with you whole-heartedly on this issue, my experience with parents that feel the need to be involved to this extent in their son's activities is that they are the micromanagers who seem to be wanting to either control their son's every move or are living vicariously through their son. These are the same parents the colleges are having problems with in that they are wanting to go to advisor conferences and pick the classes their kids will take.

Although the parent could sit in and listen, they should be strongly encouraged to wait outside and ask their son later to tell them all about it.

There were two BOR's the night my older son earned his Eagle. I sat on Brent's Board and then Brents dad and I changed places and his dad sat on my son's Board.