000

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I don't have an official answer for you but I know in our troop it's been quite common for husband and wife to be on campouts or activites. My only advice would be to always have 3 adults. We do this no matter who the adults are as 1 person is alone when the other adult is occupied for a minute (such as the bathroom).

[wagionvigil]

Two deep is two deep. There is no difference if they are related.

[evmori]

As long as one is over 21 years of age!

[cballman]

Ed Question Is it 21 or 18 ? because if a boy has reach the age of 18 then he is considered and adult in BSA but not ventureing right? I dont have my G2SS handy to clarify that question.

[Mrw]

If I remember correctly, the adult in charge must be 21 or over. The second adult can be 18-20. There may be restrictions on the younger, 18-20, ASM's driving scouts as well.

I am not really sure about the second point there as it is not an issue with our troop. My 19 yr old is the only leader in this position for our troop and he is still in the scary teen-age driver category. He knows I would not approve of him driving other scouts.

[riverwalk]

Always refer to all the National Policies, plus good sense, haha, for driving answers.

Yes, husband and wife in the example or certainly acceptable. Why wouldn't they be? As for the ages others suggested, this is covered in all the companion documents. One people should consider is the different problem of Scouts or Venturing members. It sounds funny, but the Scout isn't a Youth member after eighteen, but the other is until 21. So keep this in mind if people develop into a "couple" kind of relationship. It may be that one of them has to stop being a member.

[evmori]

The adult in charge must be 21.

[Scouting179]

If I remember correctly, the adult in charge must be 21 or over. The second adult can be 18-20. There may be restrictions on the younger, 18-20, ASM's driving scouts as well....

This is correct.

And if someone is not a competnet driver, I wouldn't let them drive my children or my Scouts.

[commish3]

There is more to it then that Scouting179. the second adult can be 18 or older BUT must be a registered Scouter OR a perent or legal guardian of a scout who is on the activity.

As far as drivers you must be a licensed driver 21 yeaqrs ofr olders EXCEPT for this exception as noted in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

"When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions:
Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted)
No record of accidents or moving violations
Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders."

[commish3]

sorry dual post

[halo]

Didn't see the original post as it was edited, but I get the jist of the topic and thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Our council has added the additional rule that both leaders cannot be a married couple. The reason I was told was that it prevents several issues from occuring including: possible colusion of spouses to perform a wrong act, divorce/family crisis taking away both leaders at once, scout having another option to turn to if he doesn't get along with one particular leader and fairness/reduction of accusations having books signed off by a non-family Akela.

[evmori]

Didn't see the original post as it was edited, but I get the jist of the topic and thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Our council has added the additional rule that both leaders cannot be a married couple. The reason I was told was that it prevents several issues from occuring including: possible colusion of spouses to perform a wrong act, divorce/family crisis taking away both leaders at once, scout having another option to turn to if he doesn't get along with one particular leader and fairness/reduction of accusations having books signed off by a non-family Akela.

Sounds like there have been problems with married couples! As someone posted, 2 deep is 2 deep!

[Scouting179]

It is not always MARRIED couples that cause these problems. I've seen cases where a male and female (both adults) in a troop, start an affiar, uhm, "get together" and cause all sorts of problems, both in the field and at meetings.

[Suzyplus2]

Has anyone recently looked up the guideline about married couples not meeting the criteria for two deep leadership? When I went through Youth Protection Training, it was made clear to us that a married couple is considered one person when considering two deep leadership requirements. If I remember correctly, the rationale was that is how the courts look at it with regards unable to require testimony against, etc...

I can remember thinking that if I was ever in a situation where a spouse (or anyone else for that matter)committed an improper act against one of "my boys", he would wish for the chance to live long enough for me to offer testimony against him...

Seriously, though, does anyone have G2SS handy? Or some other official statement regarding 2deep?

Thanks,
Sue

[wagionvigil]

Here it is and it does not address Married Couples in any way.
Two-deep leadership.
Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.
No one-on-one contact.
One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.
Respect of privacy.
Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.
Separate accommodations.
When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers.
Proper preparation for high-adventure activities.
Activities with elements of risk should never be undertaken without proper preparation, equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety measures.
No secret organizations.
The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.
Appropriate attire.
Proper clothing for activities is required. For example, skinny-dipping is not appropriate as part of Scouting.
Constructive discipline.
Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted.
Hazing prohibited.
Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity.
Junior leader training and supervision.
Adult leaders must monitor and guide the leadership techniques used by junior leaders and ensure that BSA policies are followed.
How can parents help protect their children?
Parents participate in the protection of their children in a

[halo]

"The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. "

I believe that's the key here. Chartered Organization can set their own additional rules if they feel it is necessary.

[Eamonn]

Someone please help me out!!

I get a little confused by these "My Council" rules.
I can and do see where a Council can have rules for things and places that they own or are in charge of.
For example some Councils do not allow liquid fuels on Council owned property and some have rules that cover how they manage prescription medicines at camp along with rules for knives and a dress code.
I can see that a CO can set rules that are maybe a little more tough than the National rules.
I just can't see how a Council go decide to make rules that it has no way of ever enforcing.
Surely the powers that be who wrote the YP guidelines would have said that a married couple didn't count if they thought so?
Who in a Council is charged with making up these rules?
Could it be that there really isn't such a rule and it is just a myth that gets started and takes on a life of it's own?

[evmori]

Eamonn makes an excellent point! As long as the two leaders meet the requirements it makes no difference if they are married, living together, etc.

[Lynda J]

Though our council has no rule about married couples being the two deep leadership of outing I can see where it could be a problem. If there was a family emergency both the leaders might be forced to leave. This leaves the troop in the position of having to stop the activity and leave camp. Our SM's wife is an ASM. So am I and two other leaders. Have other adults that enjoy going camping. THere is normally at least 4 adults on any camping trip. If somehting happens where two leaders have to leave we have two backups.

[evmori]

There could be problems regardless of the situation. Common sense must prevail!