Discipline Issue AGAIN!!!

[t305spl]

Hey guys,

I have been out for a little, but im back to stay. I want to start by saying i am amazed at this site. Sooo many posts and sooo many members its incredible. I was with this forum from before it was .net. I am glad to see everyone here. Now on to my post.

A scout during out COH went in to the Boys Room and knocked out 2 of the ceiling tiles and broke them. HORRIBLE and MINDBOGGLING. How do you wear a uniform and do that? But if thats not enough he then took the broken tiles and stuffed them in the toilets. This was all done for NO reason. The kid wasnt mad he was just being destructive.

I have asked my Committee and Scoutmaster what we should do. No response yet.

My thinking of his consequence for this terribly unscoutlike behavior is 10-15 hours of community service before this scout can move up in rank.

For all of you that are going to shoot this down because it is not a requirement for rank i have thought ahead so we dont need to discuss that, this would fulfill the "Lived by the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life" requirement.

In my troop the scouts must meet with me to get that signed off before the Scoutmasters conference, and thats what I will be requiring of him before he even tries to approach me for that.

Now your turn, what do you think? What would you do?

[Mrw]

At the very least, the first thing is that he should pay for any repairs and/or clean up. He should have had to clean the bathroom with strict supervision to make sure it was done right, but it is too late for that now.

It might be worthwhile too, if the SM could have a talk with the boy's parent(S) and see if there is something going on in his life that is stressful that you are not aware of. It could be he could benefit from some individual attemtion or help controling some anger issues.

He certainly does need to demonstrate some better scout spirit. He needs to know that too before he thinks he is ready for the next rank advancement. You don't say what age or rank this boy is, that may make a difference in how severe the consequence is as well.

[wagionvigil]

No Comment! As I would make folks mad! I see this dailey in school and I am the one that has to suspend them and turn them over to The Authorities. Vandalisim is reported to the police!

[JazerNorth]

Rather than you coming up with the discipline do this:

Have the SM, him, his parents, and you sit down with him to discuss the issue. Then ask him to determine if his behaviour was how a scout should act. After a little discussion on his behaviour and comparing it to a scouts behaviour, explain that the scales have been tipped. He needs to balance it out by doing something good. Then ask what he plans to do to show restitution for the incorrect behaviour and how to become a good scout. Your or the SM might need to explain that he needs to give back double of what he took. The first part of the double is to pay restitution and the second to show that he is a good scout. Let him decide the what he is going to do.

In my experience the scout always chooses to do more than I would have assigned. This shows them more than just doing right what they have done wrong, but shows them that they must decide their own fate. Works every time. Becareful that he doesn't go too far nor too short. I usually have to tone back their payback so that they can accomplish what they set out to do.

Enjoy.

JazerNorth

[ASM-142]

This 'boy' (not scout at this point) needs to do multiple things. 1) Admit to the property owners what he did; 2) Pay for all damages that he caused; and 3) Agree to any punishment that the property owner deems fitting. Finally, the SM should hold this boy back from any rank advancement until he proves his Scout Spirit.

[Scouting179]

Many fine suggestions here. My 2 cents in addition to those:

FIRST: The Scout should apologize to the TROOP at a troop meeting and to the SPONSORING organization that owns the building.

SECOND: The Scout, not his parents, should pay for the damages. If this means he gets odd jobs to raise the funds, so be it. He should also help actually repair the damage under proper supervision.

THIRD: Consider banning him from troop activities for a set amount of time.

I totally agree something like this falls under requirements like "show Scout Spirit".

[Chief J]

Here is my 2 cents worth:

First, I would preclude the Scout from participating in the Troop until a meeting is held with with the Troop Committee, the Scout, and his parents.

Second, I would turn him over to the property owners and allow them to do what they deem fit. If that is the Scout pays restitution, then so be it. If they wish to prosecute, then so be it.

I tell all Scouts as well as there parents when they join the unit, if they break the law while involved in a Scouting function, my first call will be to the police, my second phone call will be to the Scout's parents. To date, I have never had to phone the police department, nor discipline a Scout for unacceptable behavior.

Sincerely,
Chief J

[ASM-142]

...

I have been out for a little, but im back to stay...

This is off topic but welcome back.

Also, your signature block states you are Troop Guide as well as Troop Instructor. What do you do differently in these two positions?

[evmori]

I need to ask this - What proof do you have that implicates this Scout?

[EagleBoy62204]

Well First, there has to be complete evidence that he did it. I dont know and understand the full situation but if he acted alone then he did it, but if he was with someone then both should be held responsible, until one of them confesses.

As for punishment, of course if he does admit to it, then he should be turned over to the buildings administration and owners. But remember they may decide to take him to the authorities. I dont think this is neccessary. If its only a tiny bit of vandilism then a work agreement between the scoutmaster, the parents of the juvinile that is responible, the scout, and the owner of the building could take in effect. Sending them to the police for a $10 replacement for tiles isnt that real big of a deal, expecially when the school or building owner could just as easily blame the troop for this as well for not watching the scouts close enough.

Our school that we are stationed in for our troop meetings, wanted us to make a sign in and out sheet of everyone that leaves that general area that we regularly meet at. If we are outside that room, but still inside the school, we have our names on that paper and after each meeting it is droped into the principals office.



Community Service is definitly a factor here. Suggest that he does the community service around the school. Helping out with other duties like landscaping, cleaning the class rooms. Have this an amount of time that feels suitable. Not a one or two day deal.

A written apology from the boy, to both the building's owner, and the troop committee is in order. Tell the boy he must write this and it must be from his own mind about the situation he has caused. No other outside help should be allowed to give him ideas or help write this since they were not apart of the situation, therefor should not have any word into what goes into the paper.

Make sure the owner doesnt go to hard on the punishment. Yes what the boy did was terrible, expecially during a scout function and in his uniform, but punishment for vandalism like this, though really small not upscale, sometimes gets carried away by the building's owners. It was only two tiles, and not the entire ceiling, please keep that in mind, if the owner wants him to replace the whole thing. They are relativly cheap to buy seperatly, and if its in a school they usually have extras because of water leaks that may occur or repairs that they have done to the school ceiling.

Some other options you may want to suggest, is if they do have extra tiles, instead of having the scout earn funds for the tiles, what if you could get in agreement, to have the scout re install those tiles he has damaged. Of course he must be heavily supervised, by a leader of the troop and his parent(s).

[wagionvigil]

Until it hurts the pocket book or hurts physicially nothing will change. Kids do this because they can get away with it with only a slap on the wrist.There parents will pay and never punish them as they do not want to make their child mad or hurt their feelings in any way.

[t305spl]

Ok lets clarify some things.

The scout is 12-13 years old. He is Second Class.

Our first action was to call the Janitors down. They surveyed the damage and said that the bathroom doors will be locked during our troop meetings from now on.

We then confronted numerous scouts and figured out who the culprit was.

This was after the meeting so the scout was gone. We lefft messages for him and his parents on the answering machine. We also sent a Committee Member and ASM down to the scouts house to summon him and his parents back to the school. He arrived with his mother. We spoke with him and he later admitted to it.

We told him then that he would need to write apology letters to the School Superintendent and School Principal.

We let his mom see the damage and she was very annoyed. We sent him home telling him he will need to report to the Scoutmaster at a later date for his full consequence.


Chief J I like what you tell the parents. I will suggest that to my sm.

Also to whoever asked Troop Guide works exclusivly with the New Scout Patrol. I am their advisor and their link to the adults, committee and PLC. Troop Instructor teaches the entire troop scout skills, monitors advancement and awards and in my troop works with discipline issues and requirements signing.

[evmori]

OK since this Scout has admitted to the vandalism he should pay for all materials & labor required to repair what he destroyed, help repair what he destroyed and write a letter of apology. This is serious and like someone else posted, this could continue unless the repercussions hurt.

As far as his status in the Troop, I would keep him on a short leash.

[Eamonn]

"As far as his status in the Troop, I would keep him on a short leash."

Hey Ed wouldn't keeping him on a short leash in the Boys Bathroom, break a couple of rules?
(Just joking!!)

[evmori]

Hey Eamonn,
Not if the short leash reaches outside the door! LOL!

[EagleBoy62204]

Hey Eamonn,
Not if the short leash reaches outside the door! LOL!

or if the leash was wireless

[OldGreyBear]

So, the bathroom was vandalized, the culprit was ferreted out and the janitors response is to lock the doors for your meetings. Awfully inconvenient and possibly illegal, but then I am not a lawyer nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn, that tomorrow night.

If the school presses charges, then the troop could tell the scout that he has to follow the Courts decisions and cant come back until the matter is cleared up. If the school doesnt press charges, I would assign that scout as a bathroom monitor for the next 12 weeks, actually his next 12 meetings that he attends, he doenst participate, just sits in the rest room to assure nothing untoward occurs

I fail to understand how the scouts age and rank would figure in the issue. What the scout did is wrong, the disciplinary action should be the same regardless of age or rank

[deweylure]

First of all the apology is a must as well as repairing or paying to have the damage repaired. The earlier post said the mother came back to the school and was annoyed. Was this annoyance because her son does this frequently or that she had to come back. His parent must accompany him to all future outings and meetings.
I personally would stress his parents take him for help now not later. It sounds like a major problem is brewing.

Dewey

[riverwalk]

Hopefully the reaction doesn't violate the Unit's obligation to keep a safe meeting place. So, restricting restroom access would never be an answer. May have to get the COR involved if that happened.

We had a recent incident, where three Scouts just left the Troop meeting, to go wherever they went??? Parents were mad that Leaders had not left the meeting to go find them. Leaders suspended the Scouts for their actions. Mostly the parents moved their Scouts to another Unit. So, the problem may not yet be resolved...just nomadic.

[ASM-142]

Hopefully the reaction doesn't violate the Unit's obligation to keep a safe meeting place. So, restricting restroom access would never be an answer. May have to get the COR involved if that happened.

We had a recent incident, where three Scouts just left the Troop meeting, to go wherever they went??? Parents were mad that Leaders had not left the meeting to go find them. Leaders suspended the Scouts for their actions. Mostly the parents moved their Scouts to another Unit. So, the problem may not yet be resolved...just nomadic.

It is not the responsibility of the SM to babysit a scout. However, the SM should of notified the parent (and then maybe the police) being that s/he did not know where the scout was. The scout may of been abducted for all the SM knew.