Eagle merit badges required for rank ???

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Wagionvigil - I'm ok about this topic and not that upset. I do understand that we share thoughts and opinions in this forum and certainly don't want anyone hurt by these threads. Thanks for your concern.

I would however like to hear about my scenerio from someone that disagrees with the way we are doing this.

[commish3]

I will attempt address the issue ICanCanoeCanu,

The problem is two fold. 1st the way you are recording the advancement is incorrect. Second, your rationale is invalid.

It is not for an adult to determine where in the handbook the rank is recorded. The troops job is to record the MB as completed and to notify the council as such. The handbook is the Scout's, he can apply the MB where he needs it so long as it is in keeping with the policies and procedures of the BSA.

The second problem is that what you do is in opposition to those very procedures, and your justification is that the SPL has approved it. BUT the SPL has no authority in the matter nor does any adult in your unit. The policies and procedures for BSA advancement are set ONLY by the BSA and approved ONLY by the National Executive Committee. So any opinion contrary to those policies or procedures that ANYONE else may hold have no bearing on the scouting program.

It would be appropriate for you to alter your current method and follow the BSA procedure instead.

I hope this helps to explain the problem.

Happy Holidays!

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Commish - I'm not talking about the scouts handbook, I'm talking about the individual advancement sheet our troop uses to track the scouts advancement and where on this sheet the badge is recorded. As far as notifying the council, we do this with the same date used that's recorded on the blue card from the scout/counselor.
I'm also not saying the because the SPL voted, I'm saying the all adults, leaders and the SPL sat down to look at this process and it was decided that based on the way the sheet reads and the requirements read, our thought is to continue this process.

I will contact the Council advancement office to discuss this with them and to see how we (according to them) should be recording this. The question will be -
If a scouts earns his first 5 badges and they're all ERB should 4 be entered for Star and the other one carried over to Life or should all 5 be entered for Star.

This still doesn't explain what happens if the scout earns all 15 ERB's first. What happens to the next line on the advancement sheet if all 15 are used for Star, Life and the first lines on Eagle?

[PaulSWolf]

This still doesn't explain what happens if the scout earns all 15 ERB's first. What happens to the next line on the advancement sheet if all 15 are used for Star, Life and the first lines on Eagle?

The only OFFICIAL advancement sheets to be concerned about are the Unit Advancement Report, which only lists individual merit badges as they are earned, and ranks as they are completed, and the Eagle Application Form. If you're talking about the individual record form or the Troop Record Book, those are just unofficial records, used, like Troopmaster, to keep track of the advancement. You just note on the sheet or in the book that the badges are already earned.

On the Eagle Application form, the first 12 spaces in the section of the form where the Scout lists his merit badges have the 15 Required badges preprinted, with instructions for the options (g & j) that read "For items g & j, cross out badges not earned. If a crossed out badge was earned, it may be reentered in 13 through 21" So if the Scout has all 15 earned, he would list the 3 extras as 13, 14, & 15, and then add any 6 other badges in 16-21.

The official record, of course, is in the ScoutNET data base.

If, when checking the Eagle application, the Council Registrar wants to do it mannually, he/she will check to see if the form shows at least 7 TOTAL merit badges, with at least 4 of those from the REQUIRED list as earned before the date of the Star BoR, and at least 11 TOTAL merit badges, with at least 7 of those from the REQUIRED list as earned before the date of the Life BoR, and, of course, that all 21 blanks are filled in. That's also what ScoutNET does automatically. Troopmaster and the other commercial databases, also use this system when checking for proper advancement.

Even if a Scout has earned all 15 required merit badges (and none others) BEFORE he finishes all other requirements for STAR, it doesn't change the fact that he can still advance to STAR and LIFE without earning any other badges, since he has MORE than the minimum required for STAR (6), and MORE than the minimum required for LIFE (11).

In his handbook, he can list all of them in the order the are earned, and when he gets to the page for recording Eagle requirements, he can just note that they were already earned.

Simply put, the requirement for STAR is "Earn AT LEAST 6 merit badges, including AT LEAST 4 from the Eagle List", for LIFE it's "Earn AT LEAST 11 merit badges, including AT LEAST 7 from the Eagle list", and for Eagle it's "Earn AT LEAST 21 merit badges, including AT LEAST one from each of the 12 categories on the Eagle List".

[PaulSWolf]

Possibly someone will take time (that I do not have right now) to actually contact National and get an opinion.

As I said earlier today, I HAVE personally spoken with the national office about this in the past. To be honest, I don't remember if it was with Terry Lawson, or with his predecessor, John Dalrymple, but I can assure you that I did have the conversation and had my interpretation confirmed as correct.

I've also worked with Larry Morris, from Grand Canyon Council, who developed, and got approved by National, an Excel spreadsheet for checking the Eagle application, which uses this system, and can actually print out an almost exact copy of the Eagle Application, filled in with the information. If you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet, contact me.

[Scouting179]

Our council uses Scoutnet's electronic "pre-approved" application. You talk to the person at council that does this to verify what they have in the database. They hit a button and it goes to national and comes back preapproved (this takes about 2 seconds). They they print a copy for you. If a Scout has more than 12 ERBs, the 13th/14th/15th show up in the first non-required slots. Then the other non-requireds show up in alphabetical order--which is the only part I don't like as I think the non-requireds should show up in the order they were earned. What is good about this system is that the chances of national kicking back an Eagle app for paperwork errors are zilch.

[Scouting179]

Paul Wolf is 100% correct on required vs non-required.

[commish3]

Icancanoecanu, with the tracking sheet you need to follow what the requirement demands, and that is that by each uppper rank the MB count has been achieved that meets or exceeds the specified number in total.

I believe you will also find an explanation in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Manual, a must have resource for any troop advancement chair.