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MHensley
Scout
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 1
Posted: 03 Aug 2004 01:23 pm Post subject: Using two merit
badge counselors over time.
My son began the backpacking merit badge 2 1/2 years ago with
his old scoutmaster who was a backpacking merit badge
counselor. Recently he has been on several backpacking trips
with his new scoutmaster. He has completed all the
requirements for the merit badge with the new scoutmaster
except for one 15 mile 3 day trip. But, he did 3 trips of this
type and length with the old scoutmaster and the new
scoutmaster says that those trips don't count because they
were not done with him. My son is close to Eagle and is
frustrated by what has happened.
Question: do all of the requirements for the merit badge have
to be completed with the same merit badge counselor ? I am
teaching the cit. in the community merit badge to several
older scouts and have sent them reports on the requirements
they have completed. I can't believe that if I died (God
Forbid) that they would have to expend all the time and energy
to re do everything they completed with me. Please advise.
thank you.
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wagionvigil
Counselor
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
Location: PA
Posted: 03 Aug 2004 01:37 pm Post subject:
My Opinion would be that if the new counselor or visa versa
will accpet what the other said your son has done there is no
problem. When you switch counselors the new counselor can and
probably should varify hat indeed the requirements were
completed correctly. I have had boys start MB at camp and
finish them back home with a local counselor.
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mang_kiko
Counselor
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Torrance, Ca
Posted: 03 Aug 2004 10:18 pm Post subject:
It is not necessary to earn all the requirements of a merit
badge under a single counselor. In the case of merit badges
earned in camps (as mentioned by wagionvigil), there are
badges scouts partially complete before and/or after they go
to camps.
I don't recall any BSA policy on merit badges that requires a
scout to work a merit badge under a single counselor. I do not
have the advancement policy book, but I do recall a section
there about not re-testing a scout for a requirement that is
already been completed. Don't quote me though until I get to
see that policy book once again.
In my opinion, a second counselor should accept as completed
any requirements a previous counselor has already signed off.
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Jay Lee
ASM Troop 785, Torrance, CA
"He must become greater; I must become less" John 3:30 (NIV)
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RWSmith
Counselor
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 06:57 am Post subject: Re: Using two
merit badge counselors over time.
MHensley wrote:
My son began the backpacking merit badge 2-1/2 years
ago.... and the new Scoutmaster says that those trips
don't count because they were not done with him.
Question: Do all of the requirements for the merit badge
have to be completed with the same merit badge
counselor?
Your son's SM is very much incorrect. In fact, your son's SM
has no say in the matter, unless he also happens to be the
"approved" MBC for the 'Backpacking' MB. For a very good
discussion on this same topic, go over to "The Campfire" forum
and take a look at the "Lost Blue Card" thread...
http://www.meritbadge.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9
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Bob Smith, OA, NESA, DAV
ADC, Apache District
If you can read this, thank a teacher... If you can read it in
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wagionvigil
Counselor
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
Location: PA
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 07:08 am Post subject:
Wouldn't it be great if we could make everyone go by the rules
and not make up their own as they go. SO many troops are
guilty of this and it only hurts the boy. (Usually not the
SM's Son.) Part of the problem in BSA literature is the word
"should" instead of using the word "will" or "must" "Should"
opens it up to interpretation.
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Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"
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ScoutmasterBob
Counselor
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 09:25 am Post subject:
There are many MB out there that require alot of time to
complete.
The MB cards have a section were each requirement can be
approved and initialed by the MB counselor. It requires the
scout to keep track of these over time, but it would have
solved your problem if your son had a MB card that had some of
the requirements checked off.
As a Scoutmaster myself, we use a software package to track
our advancement, it also tracks activities including camping
and hiking.
As long as the person who is entering the info is faithful, I
can go back 4 years and tell how many nights camping or how
many miles hiking our troop or a Scout has done.
In the field book, there are blank pages where a Scout can
record the outings he attended.
It all comes down to record keeping. I think alot of us rely
too much on the record keeping of the troop. The Scout
Handbook, the Fieldbook both have sections that are used for
record keeping, advancement as well as for outings. I dont
think they are ever used by the individual scout. If they were
it may help to avoid situations like was described above.
If you can go back and show that you attended the activities
with records or photos or even someone else in the troop, it
might help you. It should'nt have to be this way, but it might
help.
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Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Live The Oath!
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BM_Crawford
Life
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 03:44 pm Post subject:
Some troop rules are good though. In my troop, for example,
you must complete the First Aid Merit Badge to earn first
class. This rule is in our official troop Regulations. This
way they earn all their first aid requirements for first class
and the badge they need for Eagle.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251
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wagionvigil
Counselor
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
Location: PA
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 03:53 pm Post subject:
Sorry to break it to you But there is no such thing as Troop
Rules. The only rules that count are the ones set up by the
BSA.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"
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BM_Crawford
Life
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:01 pm Post subject:
Not so if your troop has rules you have to go with them or
just find another troop. Sorry to break it to you but if its
in troop policies you have to go with it or else they dont
have to approve anything. Especially when the Advancement
Chairman is on your committee and agrees with the policy.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251
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Kobalt
Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 98
Location: Louisville, KY
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:05 pm Post subject:
I think what they're aiming for, waigon, is a set of strongly
advised ideals to aim for. While they are not rules, persay,
they are strong motivational tools to keep the scouts focused.
Many troops try to use the "First Class, First Year" ideal. It
gives the scouts something to aim for in reasonable time, and
keeps them focused on their goal. While not all scouts will
achieve First Class in one year, they will probably be much
closer than if the troop let them go at their own pace.
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John Baunach
Troop 42
"If it were easy, it would have been done before." -Jeana
Yeager, co-pilot of Voyager
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wagionvigil
Counselor
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
Location: PA
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:11 pm Post subject:
The Only rules allowed are those set down bt the BSA no local
rules apply. It is very simple in this day and age all someone
has to do is sue the troop. ALthough you are correect in
saying comply or find another troop. What I am saying are the
rules are illegal/against BSA policy to begin with.
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Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"
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BM_Crawford
Life
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:13 pm Post subject:
Yes I understand that but when the advancment chairman sits on
your committee and took part in the formation of the rules
themself there isnt much for one to do. Like BSA rules troop
Policy is there for reasons aswell.
Some rules are very much out of place like and others are to
help the scouts.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251
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wagionvigil
Counselor
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
Location: PA
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:20 pm Post subject:
I will uses an example I know first hand. I was the Lodge
Advisor for Wagion Lodge #6 for Three years. Everyone knows
the election requirements for getting into the lodge. One
troop had their own set of rules above an beyond what National
HAs set up. They required everyone to attend all local parades
in scout uniform. This rule was used for OA and for
Advancement(scout spirit)I was called by a parent about the OA
election that the troop leaders said the boy was not eligible
for election because he was not at a parade. He had met the
national requirements. I called the troop leadership and
explained they could not do that and I was told they would do
what they wanted to. Now not one to be shy I showed up at the
next meeting with the council commissioner and exec. I held
their election and the boy was elected. The troop leadership
also changed that night as the Council exec had letters of
dismissal for them. The troop is now functioning very
positively. Remember all a council exec. has to do is give you
a letter of dismissal for violating BSA policy. No hearing
Nothing. you are gone.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"
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BM_Crawford
Life
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 05:24 pm Post subject:
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you anymore if you
wish to discuss this further please feel free to email me.
Right now were very much off topic.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251
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cballman
Second Class
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Nicholasville KY
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 08:46 pm Post subject: First Aid
well back in the Mid 1970s you can see that for First Class
you HAD to earn the first aid Merit badge. Now that times and
req. have changed you now only have to do a minimal bit of
first aid for first class. we just need to also remember that
you cannot add to or subtract any req. for any rank or merit
badge. that is the policy that we teach in leader training.
even though there are some things that I think that would help
our scouts do even better it is not policy in the council and
BSA national. just like we cannot tell the boys to use the
merit badge worksheets but we can suggest that they use them
because they keep the merit badge req. in a better order. Just
giving my 2 cents worth because I think I needed to.
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Charlie Ballman
ASM Troop 41 Lexington KY
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