Tenderfoot: 30 day exercise stipulation

[gracehs]

Hello,

My son is new to boy scouts and is working on his tenderfoot. We have been trying to get an answer to a stipulation that his troop says is a requirment that other leaders that I know personally don't agree with.

10a tells you to record your best at the following tests: (page 57)
Push-ups, Pull-ups, Sit-ups, Standing Long Jump, & 1/4 mile walk/run.

Then 30 days later it says to record your best again.

10b says "Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days. (page 57-58)

On page 58 it says to practice these exercises REGULARLY for a month, then test yourself again.

On page 384 it says "The key to exercise is that it must be regular. Get in a routine of playing hard or working out at least three times a week."

Our arguement with the leaders in the troop is, they say the exercises must be done EVERY day for 30 days with no misses, if you miss you must start over again. My husband and I disagree with this. We feel since these are young men, our son is 11, that these type of exercises every day would be to much. They could hurt themselves and cause trouble later. The very first day our son was pushed to far by his boy scout buddy and was in terrible pain the following day and for several more days to follow. My son is not musculuar or a sport man. He loves to run, but struggles with pushups, and pullups.

We have talked to the District and a couple of the people there said they don't agree with the every day for 30 days and will be bringing it up at a meeting, but we have yet to get an answer or work it out with the scout master at our sons troup.

So was wanting to get other's take on it and see what others feel is appropriate. I was reading the thread "Tenderfoot Physical Fitness Requirement" and agreed with much that was said but didn't find this exact question there.

Thanks for your help,

Kelly
Tampa Florida

[wagionvigil]

My Opinion They are making up their own rules. They are reading More into it than what there really is.When I was a SM we would do the first set the First meeting the Boys Attended. Told them to practice and we would do it again in 30 days. We did tell them they must show improvement. 10 pushups must do 11 etc.

[Chief J]

Agree with Wagion, as a SM, we walk scouts through the physical fitness section of the Scout Handbook at the first meeeting, and then test them at the second meeting fopr a score. We then ask Scouts to develop a physical fitness plan that will help them improve their scores. After thirty days, we retest. All we ask for is an improvement in scores. Again 10 pushups first time 11 second, etc.

Most physicians, and sports trainers will tell you that exercising the same muscle groups every day is not recomended. If you are going to exercise every dayu, you must develop a fitness plan that works different muscle groups and areas on different days to allow time for the muscles to recover and grow. I would not expect an 11 year old Scout to be able to develop such a plan, nor expect them to execute it if they could develop one.

The unit should not read more into this requirement than is there (show improvement after 30 days have gone by.

Best Wishes, Chief J

[RWSmith]

As prevsiously stated, somebody is making up their own rules. (Argh! )

The requirement states "regular"... and that's exactly what it means... REGULAR. If National want it to read "every day", then that's what it'd say.

A "normal" exercise routine for an adult could easily be interpreted as every other day. But, we're not talking about an adult, we're talking about an 11-y/o kid here; whereas, I would simply expect him to do his best to be as consistent as he can; BUT, the requirement itself stipulates the very measure to determine the boy's success or failure is to simply "show improvement" after 30 days.

This is a perfect example of how an adult can screw up. (We tend to forget that we're human, too. Duh. I wonder if the adult judging these children exercises himself, every single day?)

[evmori]

Nope nope nope! The requirement is to show improvement. Not to practice. Practice is a means to achieve the requirement. And improvement can mean doing one more push up or doing the same amount of push ups in a shorter period of time.

[EagleBoy62204]

When we do this requirement with our boys, we make sure they understand as they do it the second time, we can not sign it off if they do not show improvement. Adding stuff on to requirements is surely not allowed. Unless he is making it clear that he is suggesting that they write up a plan, but the way you describe it, it sounds like they are forcing it upon the scout.

The only plan for an excercise requirement i know of is in Personal Fitness Merit Badge, (unless they removed it) that however is a lengthy requirement and generally the boys dont earn that as they get their tenderfoot badge.

Our first years generally always make the grade. On a rare occasion do they ever not make it. I have seen some set the bar really high for themselves and beat it, which is astonishing because they are so young.

[Scouting179]

This troop's leaders are defnitely making their own rules -- a big no-no. It makes me wonder what else is going on in the troop. They need to show improvement, requiring practice every day is not required.

[gracehs]

Thank you all for your replies. My husband, an Eagle Scout, was just amazed by all they have said about this. We have been discussing this with them for a month now with no resolve. So I decided to go elsewhere. We too felt that they were trying to make up their OWN rules. Even when I talked with the SM last night he tired to tell me it has always been this way. I told him, my husband who is an Eagle Scout said he never had to do this type of thing. So when I got home I pulled out my husbands scout book, yep we still have it and it is in great shape. Well that wasn't even a requirement for the tenderfoot back in the 80's when my husband was a scout.

I also argued the point that at this age any medical doctor would tell you it is not safe for an 11 yr old to be exercising like that every day without breaks. I have worked out on a circuit for a couple of years and they even suggest that you take a day off to give you muscles a rest.

I am glad to see that my husband and I weren't just blowing this out of preportion.

Scouting179, there are lots of things going on in this troop that are a concern. That is why the last two meetings (we had 2 weeks off due to hurricane & halloween) I have gone and stayed the entire time to monitor. I have even volunteered to help so I can monitor. There seems to be no discipline. The adults just sit back and let the older boys lead and teach, but then the other boys will not listen to the boy leaders when they are trying to make them settle. There has been name calling, rough housing, an out right disobedience. There is one boy who my son said say's he is gay. He does things to the other boys that my son does not like. We have tried to discuss this with our district rep but have not been able to actually talk with him. I am concerned sending my son on camp out as I am told this boy is always there. Then one of the leaders sons that we are friends with said he is always like that and that he goes to this high school and they all do that. And the adults just stand around and say nothing or laugh I am told. What he is doing is wrong.

My husband and I are even shocked that he has been allowed to remain in scouting. So far in the two meetings I have attended I have not seen him do the nasty things my son has shared with me, but I did witness some other things by this boy that I did not like to see.

So we will see. Time will tell, we may be looking for a new troop if things do not get worked out with this one.

If I can not get any answers out of my district, is there a national number I can call to talk to someone there about this exercise requirement?

Thank you,

Kelly

[Scouting179]

Gracehs:

Contact your District Executive (the professional), District Chairman, or Council Adv Rep. Keep moving up the chain, letting each one know that until you get action, you will not stop.

My suggestion is move to another troop. Based on what you've said, I feel safe saying something bad will happen in the troop you're in--and you don't want to be there when it does.

For your other concerns:
"seems to be no discipline. The adults just sit back and let the older boys lead and teach, " this part alone could just be the result of a boy-run troop, which is the way it's supposed to be.


"but then the other boys will not listen to the boy leaders when they are trying to make them settle. There has been name calling, rough housing, an out right disobedience." But then, this is too much, the adults need to step in and take some action here

"There is one boy who my son said say's he is gay. He does things to the other boys that my son does not like. We have tried to discuss this with our district rep but have not been able to actually talk with him. I am concerned sending my son on camp out as I am told this boy is always there" HAVE YOUR FAMILY STAY AWAY FROM THIS KID. The fact your son is not comfortable with this is not good and a definite sign to stay away. REPORT THIS TO DISTRICT AND COUNCIL, even NATIONAL if the others won't listen. BSA's central switchboard is 1-972-580-2000. If I were you, I'd take my son and leave this troop like a goose going south in winter. I recall something I was told when I was young and attempting to chase women: "If you're not comfortable in a social situation, get out of it." This is not a direct analogy, but close enough to make the point.

These are my thoughts on this. I hope it works out for you. Few troops are like the one you describe.[/i]

[ASM-142]

I would report this to the professional scouters and also move to another troop. You (and your son) should not stay where there is a safety concern. This is not a boy scout troop but a gang that make up their own rules.

[EagleBoy62204]

There is one boy who my son said say's he is gay. He does things to the other boys that my son does not like.

Kids those ages use that word "gay" to mean several things. One could use the term straight out because he doesnt like that certain person. Ive heard at my meetings kids use that word several times about things and about other people. As much as i dont like them using it, and the fact that some of the kids are in fact not. They use the word just to make people talk.

But if it is the case. Then the leaders should sit down with the boy to figure it out. Going to national and district and council will just make things worse, if it turns out the kid is just putting on an act, or really isnt.

[Mrw]

I am getting the impression here that the issue isn't whether the boy is "gay" as in "homosexual," but that his behavior toward other boys is making the son uncomfortable or even to feel threatened. And that this behavior has gone on for a while, the troop leaders are aware of it and are not addressing it.

I would switch troops immediately as I can't imagine ever feeling comfortable with the troop leadership as it stands now. If it were me, I would need a complete change to want to stay involved with this troop.

I would let the leadership know why I was leaving. I would contact the district/council leadership, going up the chain as needed to make sure that the troop has some oversight and can get things straightened out for the other boys that are in the same situation, but may not be looking to find a new troop.

[scoutchallenge]

I thnk that I have found myself in the exact situation. Both my boys were unable to do a full pull up at this age. We worked and worked at it. But because they showed no "improvement" the troop would not sign off. I pitched a fit and then they did.

Just remember you are the only one who really is watching out for your boy

[cballman]

JUst another opinion about this subject. the req. says show improvement in the above activities after thirty days. to me this would say if you showed improvement in 4 of the 5 then yes I would sign off. but if you showed improvement in only 1 then no i wouldnt. my thought is it says activities not each one. because at that age kids cannot do that. if a leader says thats the way it works then lets get them out there doing the same thing, if not then SHUT UP. Sorry for being so me

[Eamonn]

I can never understand why people advise others to get Professional Scouters involved with what are clearly Unit issues.
Professional Scouters are not members of unit and can't fix unit problems.
They have no training in fix unit problems.
If there is a problem within the unit, the first port of call is the Troop Committee (In this this case the Advancement Chair.) Then maybe the Unit Commissioner. He should report to the District Commissioner, who will report to the District Advancement Chair. All these fine people are volunteers. Fixing or trying to fix unit problems using pros is like teaching a pig to sing.

[Mrw]

The point here is that the unit is broken and needs some outside help to get back on track.

If the troop knew it was in trouble, they would be taking steps, but they are not. Even just an inquiry from the next level up about how things are going may be enough to spur some action from the troop leadership. If this boy's behavior is so bad that it makes other boys uncomfortable, and someone gets hurt because of it, then the troop is splashed all over the news and we all look bad.

The other thing is that if the troop is requiring things for advancement that are outside the range of what is required and reasonable for the boys to do, the troop leadership needs some guidance as to what they should be doing differently. Again, before some one gets hurt.

We have unit commissioners and district staff for a reason. If we never have to call on them, that is the ideal. Some times sometihing needs to be looked at from another point of view.

[evmori]

I can never understand why people advise others to get Professional Scouters involved with what are clearly Unit issues.
Professional Scouters are not members of unit and can't fix unit problems.
They have no training in fix unit problems.
If there is a problem within the unit, the first port of call is the Troop Committee (In this this case the Advancement Chair.) Then maybe the Unit Commissioner. He should report to the District Commissioner, who will report to the District Advancement Chair. All these fine people are volunteers. Fixing or trying to fix unit problems using pros is like teaching a pig to sing.

Right on the money, Eamonn! This kind of problem never needs to get to the pros. This should be handled between the UC & the unit.

[ASM-142]

I can never understand why people advise others to get Professional Scouters involved with what are clearly Unit issues.
Professional Scouters are not members of unit and can't fix unit problems.
They have no training in fix unit problems.
If there is a problem within the unit, the first port of call is the Troop Committee (In this this case the Advancement Chair.) Then maybe the Unit Commissioner. He should report to the District Commissioner, who will report to the District Advancement Chair. All these fine people are volunteers. Fixing or trying to fix unit problems using pros is like teaching a pig to sing.

Right on the money, Eamonn! This kind of problem never needs to get to the pros. This should be handled between the UC & the unit.

I agree that the problem should be handled at the lowest level possible. However, thjis type of problem (troop rules) are more then at a single unit level and the pro's need to know about this. The other volunteers all started out in a troop at one time and may not understand all the issues that arise with troop rules since they may of been part of it at one time. I am not saying all volunteers are like this but I do not in my counsel these other volunteers have some unusual rules.

[Mrw]

I only suggested going up to the next level since the parent is obviously getting nowhere fast with the current adult troop leadership. The other thing here is not only the Tenderfoot requirement they asked about originally, but issues with rude and possibly threatening behavior that are not being dealt with. Basic safety concerns might require a stronger response that just a little training talk about how to interpret one requirement.

[mrcis]

I think the way it was done by my son's new scout patrol leader was: show improvement. Period. I think my son did 2 chin-ups the first time and after the 30 days he did three. He showed imporovement. No one said (and the requirement does not say) "improve by a certain number" or "marked improvement." I think that it's situations like this that make boys quit Scouting.