Tenderfoot: 30 day exercise stipulation

[DougK]

Our troop has been struggling for several years on this requirement. We have boys who are 14 and still haven't been able to accomplish this. However, I'm confused on the original quote from the handbook on page 58. My edition (copyright 1998 11th edition) clearly states "Practice each of these exercises every day for a month, then test yourself again". I'm totally against adding to the requirements, but this one is pretty clear. If there is a newer revision that takes out this detail, please let me know. Ever since my first son crossed over into boy scouts I've wondered (along with others) why such a tough requirement, in terms of consistency, is needed just for Tenderfoot.

[wagionvigil]

Ok here is what it means Johnny comes in and does 5 pull ups. he practices each day fro a month to improve ( a scout is trustworthy) in a month Johnny comes to the meeting and does 6 pull ups. He has met the requirement.

[DougK]

Well, as a prior post mentioned, some of these things are subject to interpretation by the troop. We have a roundtable meeting tonight. I haven't been involved in this discussion, our SM and prior SM have been. It has apparently come up throughout our (Minnesota) district and apparently all of the other troops have a similar interpretation to ours, because they all say this is THE most difficult requirement on the trail to first class. It's the only one that we, as leaders, cannot walk the boys through. I'll bring up the history of this post to offer another interpretation. A scout is trustworthy, but when we have a 3rd year scout who admittedly hasn't done the 30 days consistently, we're kinda stuck.
The original post is also very misleading by misquoting the handbook. I was pretty excited about a solution to our problem until I read my own copy.

[evmori]

Ok here is what it means Johnny comes in and does 5 pull ups. he practices each day fro a month to improve ( a scout is trustworthy) in a month Johnny comes to the meeting and does 6 pull ups. He has met the requirement.

Or Johnny can do 5 pull ups in 5 minutes & he practices for 30 days and comes back & does 5 pull ups in 4 minutes. He has shown improvement and therefore has met the requirement.

[wagionvigil]

True,but who times them?

[Mrw]

Practicing for 30 days could mean daily, weekly maybe once if he remembers. The whole point is that he works hard enough to show SOME type of improvement.

If the boy is struggling with showing any improvement at all, maybe an older scout can spend time with him each week at the meeting until he can do the exercises with some improvement over his initial testing.

Nowhere does the requirement say he NEEDS to do them daily or keep an exercise log or anything other than improve his score over a month.

[wagionvigil]

I really donot get the problem. In 18 years as a scoutmaster or and asst. I never saw a scout not finish this requirement past tye first month of membership. The first meeting they attend they do the first round a month later we do the second round.

[Lynda J]

Actually is does say practice daily. Check pg 58 it sets down the requirement for 10b.

Practice each of these excercises every day for a month. then test youself again

[mrcis]

Look at it this way...say a boy starts Scouts and in the 30 days since he joins, he has a growth spurt. Doesn't it stand to reason that he would improve in some of the components of the requirement? He would have improved his marks in 30 days without practicing. I think most people in this thread are getting hung up on the practicing part. I certainly hope no one out there is seeing a boy improve in his fitness test marks then saying "Did you practice?"and if he says "No", then he's not signed off. But by the same token, if a boy does not improve and you ask the same question and he says he didn't practice, then you have a leg to stand on. I also hope people keep in mind that many boys participate in scouting because they can't, or don't like to participate in the myriad youth sports programs offered nationwide (like my son) and while everyone understands the boys need to be physically fit, the last thing the program needs is someone standing over them, pushing them to do athletic tests and punishing them when after their perceived best effort they still "fail"(like some youth sports coaches). As I said above, narrow interpretation of things like this is what makes boys quit Scouting. Perhaps a solution is to make part A of the requirement (the first test) part of Tenderfoot and then after a year of growth and normal Scouting activity make part B (improvement) come as a part of the First Class requirement.

[Lynda J]

My wonderfully wise parents use to say, "Kids will do as much or as little as you expect of them"
If you don't expect them to achieve then they won't try.
There is a difference if the boy simply isn't physically able to do something.
When they hear a parent or an adult say that something is "to hard" for them to do. Then they figure it really is. If we encourage them to do all they can do they will try to do just that.
No I didn't expect the boys in my troop to keep an exercise log. But I did ask them if they tried to practice every day. For most of them it was easy since most were doing the push ups and pull ups in school.
I didn't have a single boy that wasn't able to improve what he had the first time. Most made big advances. All in what you expect of them.

[mrcis]

Agreed, Lynda, there is absolutely no question boys should be expected to achieve the requirements. So it seems we are in agreement that the improvement is what is important, not necessarily the daily practice. I am going through this with my son. He's not a big fan of swimming and hasn't done it since summer but expects to jump right in the pool and knock out the BSA Swimmer test. Can't be done, I told him, you need to work up to it. After a few sessions, he's close, but I do expect him to achieve the requirement to the letter.

[WVBeaver05]

Here are my thoughts on this one.

The text referred to on page 58 of my son's handbook does in fact say: "Practice each of these exercises every day for a month..." and that is good guidance as is most of the text. However, the requirement (10b) says "Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days."

Now, I have to admit (proudly, in fact) that I am one of those sticklers for neither adding or subtracting anything from the requirements. But, I use the requirements, not every sentence in the handbook.

A couple years ago when my son did this requirement we talked about it at some length. I advised him that the way I had been taught strength building exercises needed to be alternated (in High School, we worked different muscle groups on alternate days to provide the best gain), but that endurance building could be done daily (i.e. in this case the 0.25 mile walk/run). After the discussion, he worked regularly on all, but not every day. Every day for an active youth is probably nearly impossible. There were days of catch school bus at around 7am, directly from school to choir practice, directly from there to Scout meeting, from there home for homework/dinner and lucky to be in bed by 10pm.

So, again just my opinion, but every day isn't in the requirment, and it isn't a realistic goal.

YiS

[FrankJ]

Realize that this is a tenderfoot requirement. It is meant to get the scout to start thinking about personal fitness. The personal fitness merit badge has a more rigorous requirements for an exersise program.

[Lynda J]

We agree that the improvement is important. But I also believe that the practice is just as important.
The requirement says practice daily. It doesn't require that you do each of the excersises daily. But it does say practice daily.

What Kevin did was one day he did push ups. One day pull ups. One day we would walk. Then do flexability exercises. But we did at least one of the excercises every day.

Remember if we set it up so boys can skirt the edges of the requirements it isn't fair to them.
I look at it this way. Once Kevin gets into the real world do I want to have taught him that it is OK to take the easiest way out or do I want to have taught him that you go by the rules. I hope he learns to go by the rules.

[vpalango]

I think we're in part dealing with different editions of the requirement here... I checked the book I have (only a year old) and it definitely says...

10b. Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days

And omits the every day portion of the requirement. Does anyone know what date this wording may have changed? I'm sure the book I have doesn't specifically say every day as this was something I specifically analyzed when I was dealing with this question.

[FrankJ]

I agree that scouts, like most people will rise to the expectations you set for them.

I also agree it is important to follow the requirements. But it is also important to teach the scout to understand the spirit & intent of the requirements, not just blind obedience to the written word. It is very realistic to expect that "practicing for 30 days" means slightly different a thing in every situation.

[DougK]

Well, the problem is solved, although we wish the requirement said what most seem to interpret it to say. The question becomes, is the bold heading the ONLY important information, or if the standard type that follows also as important. The bold says practice 30 days, but the normal text later says every day for 30 days.
Our solution, per discussion with others in the district, is to test at one meeting, have boys practice (at home, school, whatever-Loose interpretation of the requirement), we will then work with them each Monday for a month at the meeting and test after 30 days.

[WVBeaver05]

Should be easy to confirm what is intended. I don't have it handy but isn't the Boy Scout Requirements book the official requirements? If so, and if it only includes the requirements (such as those listed on pages 32-33 and 438-439, or in bold at the top of page 58 for this discussion), then that is the requirement. Does anyone have this book handy to confirm?

YiS

[wagionvigil]

The published requirement book are the real requirements. Not waht is in the scout handbook that may be printed several years ago.

[RWSmith]

I must say, this turned out to be a really good thread, except for the part where I shot my mouth off. The ones where there is debate, sometimes differences, but always in accord... these are my favorites. Thank you, all.

After having seen all these posts, I remembered having told a young Scout once, "These are the requirements--nothing more; nothing less". The youngster, being wiser than I, asked, "What if I miss a day? Will I have to start over?" [He assumed that, even though the requirement didn't specify "daily", that's exactly what he read it to mean.] I said, "I don't know. Let's look up that section in your Scout Handbook, and see what it says." Sure enough, as stated in a prior post, the handbook says daily. So, we discussed the requirements (the whats) versus the handbook's information (the hows). He had no qualms about exercising Monday through Saturday; but, he really wanted to take Sundays off, for a variety of reasons... I'm sure a couple are popping in your head right now. I was completely comfortable with that. He surely shouldn't have to start over for missing a day; but, he'd definitely have to log it--even if it was a "down day". That way, IMHO, he'd meet the requirement, both literally and in spirit.