What comes first

[FrankJ]

I disagree. You not adding a requirement; you are just requiring the scout to satisify you, the counselor the requirements are met. This is not at all like a board of review. At the BOR the merit badge is already earned & nothing the BOR can do to change that. I generally take partials & do not believe in adding hoops to jump through, but if my signature is going on the bottom line, I am going to be satisfied that the requirements have been met. If the scout doesn't like that he can find another counselor. YMMV.

[vpalango]

I agree with those who do not necessarily accept partials. I council camping MB within our troop, and always at least check over that the scout knows the content of the badge, despite the partial (usually from summer camp).

I usually can attest myself to most of the core camping requirements (as I usually have participated in most of the trips), but do quiz on things like the First Aid portion. Again, not completely going through every item in the partial, just enough to satisfy myself that the scout can demonstrate that he knows the content within the badge.

I have had cases where I quiz a scout on a part of the MB, and he doesn't know it. In that case, I'll make him come back to me, letting him know that I expect him to be able to quiz on any requirement in the MB.

They almost always come prepared the second time. An exercize in "Be Prepared" is also part of scouting IMHO.

[ASM-142]

I think that the MBC should either accept the partial without any re-testing or do not council the scout on that specific badge. Re-testing is beyond the requirements IMHO.

[wagionvigil]

Here is the Problem. The last counselor is the one that signs the card. Saying I approve this scout for this MB. I don't think asking a few questions is retesting. I once had a kid come with a partial for swimming. He haad to inlate his clothes. I failed him as he could not swim well enough even to get out from the pool edge to start the session. How he even go Swimmer was beyond me.

[ASM-142]

Here is the Problem. The last counselor is the one that signs the card. Saying I approve this scout for this MB. I don't think asking a few questions is retesting. I once had a kid come with a partial for swimming. He haad to inlate his clothes. I failed him as he could not swim well enough even to get out from the pool edge to start the session. How he even go Swimmer was beyond me.

I understand the problem and in some ways agree with you. However, you are failing him on something that another councilor has passed him on.

[wagionvigil]

If not signing the card is wrong then I will be wrong everytime I find a non qualified scout.

[ASM-142]

I respect your decision not to sign off on cards where you feel that a requirment has not been satisfied. I just think that if a scout knew up front that a MBC does not accept partials then he should have the opportunity to select a different MBC

[FrankJ]

After a scout interviews me as a counselor he always as the option to decide he would like working with another counselor. I didn't say I do not except partials, just I reserve the right to review them. I do not view this in the same light as retesting.

[evmori]

I gotta agree with wagonvigil. When Scout's come to me with partials I make sure they know what they should before completing the badge. If they don't, we go over it again.

[vpalango]

I think another way to look at this is that the MB councelor is signing off on the MB as a whole. Partials really have no "legal" force (that I'm aware of) from the BSAs standpoint. This is the problem of a partial, it doesn't HAVE to be accepted, and a MB is only completed whent the councelor is willing to sign of on ALL the requirements.

Now, that being said, it is certainly the practice where I am to consider the work done on a partial. Usually, I get them in the form of a signed checksheet from the councelor at summer camp (not on a blue card), and I do accept the partials. What this means to me is that I'm only spot testing those requirements, not re-teaching the badge in detail. However, if the boy doesn't satisfy me on the spot test, for me to sign the card I will ask him to either study up, or schedule time with me to re-take it. If the scout (or the parent) aren't happy with that, they can feel free to seek another counselor to sign the card.

As I look at it, if I don't feel that the scout has learned the entire MB, I'm not going to put my name on the card. End of story.

Again, this isn't adding any requirements on the scout, in my opinion. It's allowing the counselor who is signing off on the MB to verify that the badge is truely completed.

[ASM-142]

Each individual requirement for a MB has a sign-off in addition to signing off on the MB overall. By spot testing you are in a sense adding to the requirements. This is the same as a BOR testing a Scout on a requirement for a rank advancement since they have the final sign-off on the rank advancement even though each individual requirement also has a sign-off.

[cballman]

but what we have failed to see is that even with a signed blue card partial if MY name is going on the card then it is MY responsibilty to make sure all of the req. are done. If I know for a fact that they were done then no problem but if I dont know the MBC or have not talked to them about that child in question then YES I will go over the merit badge with the scout again. if he or his parents question that then they can find the MBC that gave the child a partial and finish the rest of the badge. IE if a child went to summer camp and didnt finish the Emergancy Prep Merit badge and has only one req left to do the he can either go over it with me or go back to camp or find the MBC from camp and finish the badge. two choices same result. thats not adding to or subtracting from a badge. another example if a child comes from another troop with a first aid Merit badge partial he comes to me to get 2 reqs finished but dont know anything about it whos name is on the card to pass? not mine because if a child dont know anything about the badge then how can I sign my name that he has done ALL the requirements for this badge? when it comes to a point of retesting then whos doing the badge the parents or the child? just my humble opinion.

[ASM-142]

What is a scout came from another troop where you do not know anyone and all he has left for 1st class is the Scoutmaster Conference and the BOR. Do you go over all the signed requirements with him or tell him to go back to the other troop?

[Mrw]

I would suggest the SM either plans for a longer than normal conference to get to know the boy and his skills a little better or have an older boy in the troop spend time with the new boy to check over his skill levels.

Considering that the scout spirit requirement is assessed by seeing how the boy behaves and acts toward others, this is a pretty tough place for a boy to be.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

What is a scout came from another troop where you do not know anyone and all he has left for 1st class is the Scoutmaster Conference and the BOR. Do you go over all the signed requirements with him or tell him to go back to the other troop?

That's an easy one - the SM IS allowed to retest on a SMC. I would hope that the SM would retest on most requirements since this is a brand new scout to the troop and the fact that the boy didn't finish the rank at his old troop before moving to ours, would allert me to check even more.

[FrankJ]

What is a scout came from another troop where you do not know anyone and all he has left for 1st class is the Scoutmaster Conference and the BOR. Do you go over all the signed requirements with him or tell him to go back to the other troop?

I see this a different situation than a merit badge partial.
I am not really sure if the Scoutmaster's conference is a place for retesting. Some of the requirements don't even lend themselves to retesting.
The SM conference would naturally be longer to get to know the new scout. It would be reasonable to expect the completed requirements to be fully documented which might be more than an intitial in the scout's handbook. Why the SMC & BOR was not conducted at the former troop would be a reasonable question; I can think of several acceptable answsers. This is a good time to use common sense. Even asking for a little time to get know th e scout would be reasonable

I would expect similar questions in the BOR.

[Mrw]

We had a scout leave the troop in a huff the week before his SM conference and BOR for Life. His new troop had him wait the six months with a new position to verify it had been done to their satisfaction.

[deweylure]

I had a discussion with another MB counselor.I was told you do not have to accept a partial from another counselor. I find this very strange. I have not been able to find this in printed form from the BSA.
Logic tells me this is incorrect . Otherwise why would the various summer camps issue partials.

Dewey lure

[vpalango]

I had a discussion with another MB counselor.I was told you do not have to accept a partial from another counselor. I find this very strange. I have not been able to find this in printed form from the BSA.
Logic tells me this is incorrect . Otherwise why would the various summer camps issue partials.

Here's how I make my decsions on this....

From A Guide to Merit Badge Counseling (No. 34532A)

What's My Responsibility?
Your task is to satisfy yourself that each Scout who comes to you meets all the requirements for the merit badge. In this sense you are an examiner, though your larger opportunity lies in coaching-helping the Scout meet the challenge of the requirements and making him aware of the deeper aspects of the subject through your knowledge and experience.
Note the active phrase "your task is to satisfy yourself that each Scout who comes to you meets all the requirements of the badge"

What Do I Agree to Do?
As a merit badge counselor, I agree to

Follow the requirements of the merit badge, making no deletions or additions, ensuring that the advancement standards are fair and uniform for all Scouts.
Have a buddy present with each Scout at all instructional sessions.
Renew my registration as a merit badge counselor annually if I plan to continue serving as a merit badge counselor.

Note that instruction one says both that you must make no deletions or additions, and ensure that advnacement standards are fair and uniform for all scouts

When you combine these things, I really am not convinced in any way that re-testing is in any way adding to the requirements. Going back to the responsibility vs. doing sections... It is my responsibility to make sure the scout meets all the requirements. In regard to the rest, re-testing doesn't add to the requriements, but it does ensure fair and uniform standards.

The key to me here is communications. When a boy comes to me with a partial, I clearly spell out my expectations. They know, before we start, that I will re-test them on elements of a badge. I will not have them repeat things (for instance with a time requirement). But I will validate that the requirement has been completed.

In regard to the validity of partials, I certainly think they are valid, and the work the scout did achieving that partial does count. So I do not necessarily re-teach all elements of the badge, rather I spot check the important points (for example - First Aid in Camping). If a boy answers my spot checks well against their partial, I accept the partial in total. If they do not do well in a spot check, then I will re-teach the badge. This is in no way inconsistent. I use this process fairly and consistently for all scouts who come to me, and in this manner I can make sure that the scout has fullfilled all requirements of the badge prior to my signoff.