when is it time to ask a scout to leave the troop

[deweylure]

your help please
I am an ASM and we have several boys with emotional problems. Lately the behavior of 2 is getting worse. Behavior includes hitting,lying,taking items,trying to cause problems by going to another leader if they can not have their way.

My son says he wants to quit. Other boys have already quit. Parents and other leaders think its time they are asked to leave.

Several times my son interceded to stop anoither dis -abled boy from getting hit. the 1 boy is 14 my son 12. Being much taller this boy leans into his face and it seems tries to antagonize the situation. When my son moved forward this boys mom walked in and saw half the situation,then said my son is to blame.
When is it time to ask the boys to leave? I really do not want any boy to get kicked out but enough is enough.

Deweylure

[Mrw]

I would say that the parents of the boys who are behavior problems be asked to meet with the Committee. It needs to made clear to them that if the boy's behaviour does not improve he will not be welcomed back. The boy also need to be told this.

If he acts up, his parent should be called to come get him early and/or be asked to stay at the meeting with their child and correct him themselves.

My experience is that the parents will stop bringing the boy after this and you may never be in the situation to tell them he cannot come back.

[Chief J]

A meeting with the Troop Committee is definately in order. These Scouts, need to be held accountable for their behavior.

We have had situations like this in the past, and when you inform the parents of the standard and what the expectation is, they generally do not want to impose this on their son and will not bring the "problem" scout back.

If they insist on remaining with the Troop, then a plan should be discussed on how they will be allowed to participate. (i.e., A partent must attend all functions with the Scout or somthing of that nature).

Best of Luck,
Chief J

[deweylure]

One of the problems I forgot to mention is the one boy who is causing trouble is ,his mom is the Committee chair.
We have said the boys can not go on outings alone . What haqppens is the boys are not watched 24/7. In an instant the trouble starts. Meetings are the same way.

All; the other boys need attention.


Dewey

[cballman]

to quote a famous person

" then needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one"


so if the child is having that much trouble maybe they are being forced to be in scouts. you might need to sit down with the kids and parents in question and hash out the problems. then take action but just remember it might also be a medical condition that is causing this.

[wagionvigil]

You see,these same kids will get away with this at school. Because the schools are so afraid of the parents of "special Needs" kids they will not make them obey rules. Regardless of Charlies quote in the school systems the needs of the one over shadow everyone else. That is why there needs to be change.
I n a scout troop it is simple, behave or go, we are not putting up with anti- social behavior regardless of the circumstances of the child. Take a troop vote the boys are the ones that run the troop not the adults. The boys vote them out they are gone!

[Mad Dog]

You might want to consider speaking with a lawyer or someone at your council level before you let the boys vote them out. Especially if the boys are classified. You might be opening yourself and the troop and the BSA up to ADA lawsuit.

[wagionvigil]

1. Private organization
2. Does Not Get any government funding
3. Can restrict membership at their own choosing!

[OldGreyBear]

Didnt know that ADA included the Boy Scouts, but is it does, what does reasonable accomadation mean in this case? That other boys are put at risk?

Wagiovirgil, as a parent of a special needs child I very much disagree with your crack about schools and them being afraid,of special needs childrens parents. I wish they were. I had to fight to get my child the education the state said it owed him every step of the way. it was a long and difficult struggle just to get the school district to pay any attention and then they thought putting learning disables kids in with Behavior problems was the answer. I just wish they were afraid of us!

[wagionvigil]

Around here that is the case. I have been in education for 3 years and in this district they basicially give in to any and all request. I am sorry if what I said offended you BUT I see it here on a dailey basis. "Kenny gets in a fight BUT he is special needs so nothing happens. "Joey" is in the same fight but a regular student he is suspended. Fair? I think not!

[JazerNorth]

I have "heard" of some councils that get an organization to charter a disabled Troop. This way the parents and leaders are aware of each disabilty, and the parents usually attend the meeting. I think you might want the council/district to do this then have the boys move to that Troop. You should also find that funding for the disabled Troop will come much easier, as certain organizations that support disabled persons will donate specifically to that Troop.

Just a thought to help the boys stay in scouts and keep the peace at the other Troop.

JazerNorth

[Mrw]

I have a co-worker with a similar problem in his son's troop. The mother (CC at the time) had additional issues and was asked to leave the troop. The father is on a much more even keel and attends with the boy. The boy's behavior is getting better and the mother's worse.

Many other issues in the troop have gone away with the mother being banned.

Sad situation all around and especially for the kid caught in the middle.

[evmori]

Suspend these Scouts for 3 months. After that time, have a meeting with the Scouts & parents to determine if they should be allowed back. If the determination is they are allowed back, it should be on a probationary period of 3 months.

[FrankJ]

A troop can set mebership standards & not accept members who do not meet them. The only absolute no-no I know of is race. There is a blurb about this in the Scout Master Handbook under membership.

Our troop forturnately has been able to work through the issues & have not have to ask a boy to leave. At some point you do have to say enough is enough. In your case since the Commitee Chair is directly involved, the SM & charter org rep should be talking. Hopefully you a have an unit commisioner that you could talk to.

Some parent can see no wrong their kids do. To categorize one class; special needs, football players, band, cheerleaders, etc does a diservice to the majority in the group & in my experience not particularly accurate.

[fritz1255]

Had the same situation in our Troop - a boy with SEVERE attention deficit disorder. Very disruptive and difficult; none of the other boys wanted to be around him. Attendance at campouts and other Troop events fell way off. We tried to deal with him and encourage the other boys to accept him as he was, but it's bad when one kid ruins things for everyone else. Finally the kid's behaviour became even too much for his dad to take, and he is now in some type of "boot camp". I feel bad about the situation, and can only hope that he works out his problems. I know this is very hard to undertstand until you have been in this situation yourself.

[deweylure]

thanks for all the suggestions. I have tried to relax and think this one out and as many of you already know problem situations can really stress you out.
To an earlier reply ,yes the boys have a medical diagnosis.

I will keep you informed.

dewey

[616kayak]

This is a tough one. it makes it even harder not knowing what disorder they have. What I suggest you do is learn as much about this disorder as possible so you will know what you can do to work with them.

I would also suggest running an Honor Board type of thing with your patrol leaders. to determine how the scouts feel about the situation and how they recommend you solve it. The Honor Board’s decision would only be a recommendation for the parent committee of course.

[Chief J]

If the Boys have already been classified by a physician or psychologist, then they will also cousel the family and the boys as to the framework they should operate in.

Many times these children will be referred to a social services agency that specializes in dealing with the disorder. If this is the case, ask the counselor or caseworker to attend the Committee meeting to give their guidance.

I would say after reasonable attempts at accomodation, if the Scout does not comply, then they need to be referred to a unit that can accomodate the disabilities or if none available seperated from your program. Again, if the Troop goes to pot beacuase of the behavior of one individual, then you do not have a Troop.

Get your Unit Commissioner involved in this so District and Council are aware of the situation before it becomes larger than it should.

I agree with Wagionvigil, too often, leaders, and people with the authority to make decisions are intimitaded to make the right decision when it comes to unacceptable behavior where a special needs child is concerned due to the threat of a lawsuit or other retribution of the parents. I think it is important that everyone understand having a disability does not give the child the right to act in a criminal manner and engage in fighting, and destruction of property.

Chief J

[Lynda J]

Last year we had a boy that we were going to ask to leave the troop. Had ask the mother to come in with him to talk to the CC, SM, and ASM. The day before he called and said he was quiting scouting.

It was a very hard issue for me since he was one of the boys I had brought over from Webs. He had always been a hand full but at the point that he was actually endangering other boys we had no option.

I talked to one of the oldtimers in our district about this. He ask me how much better program I could give the other boys in the troop if I wasn't having to always deal with major issues with this one boy. I had to admit a lot. We were spending almost half the troop meeting dealing with problems with him. It had also gotten to the point that other parents were telling us that their sons would not be going on outings that this boy went on.

The final decission has to be what is best for the largest number of boys.
It hurts. I felt that I had failed this boy, but I am always thinking that I can "save" all the bad ones. My mother had the same issue.

But you can't let one or two boys destroy an entire troop.

[hacimsaalk]

i know in our troop since i joined, we have kicked out one scout. he was doing many of the things you described. pretty much he was making a living hell out of every campout for everyone else. anyhow, we drew the line when he busted a water pipe at camp and drained the tower. hope this helps