In - Troop JLT Program Help

[scoutaholic]

As previously stated in this thread, the old Scoutmaster's Junior Leader Training Kit is not longer available and has been replaced with the Troop Leadership Training. I already had the older one (without the video), and went to get the new one before doing our troop leadership training next week. The new one only has 7 or 8 pages of how to run the training, and has no mention of video segments or games, etc like the old one. It appears to be a very short outline, with no detail of how to actually carry out the training. I was able to get the old discontinued video, and will be using a mixture of the old and new trainings.

The new NYLT training sylabus has never been used in our council that I am aware of, (because it is still new). It was developed to coincide with the WoodBadge sylabus. That way the Youth Leadership is getting the same training as their Adult counterparts. I imagine that will go a long way in helping the youth and adult leaders to work together in leading their units. I look forward to hearing some feedback on the new NYLT after they run the new course this spring. The sylabus is available for purchase, but as was mentioned earlier, I can't imagine many troops being able to pull off such a big training on the unit level. I bought it, but haven't had time to look at it yet. I hope it really is similar to the Woodbadge training that I recently experienced.

[616kayak]

Just my opinion, Feel free to criticize.

AS a leader for my entire scouting career i would say less than 1% of my knowledge came from attending a JLT. My troop used the One provided for troops with a video. In the video it shows some situations where it pretty much goes along like this :

scout: man I don’t wana go get the water
SPL: come on go get the water
scout: (getting mad) walks away
SPL: come on man just get the water every one needs to do their part
scout: o.. ok ill do it.

That’s unrealistic and had all my leaders laughing.

The only way to learn to lead is by leading. If you have an advisor such as a jasm you may learn faster.

The bottom line
---Nothing will train you as well as first hand experience.----

[Mrw]

Our troop has recently used a training that was based on a Powerpoint presentation. I did not attend, but I could see the difference in that the boys got the idea that they did not have to shout to get things done and that being loudest does not make one a good leader. It at least gets the boys to know there is a better way and that they can do a better job if they put their mind to it.

[616kayak]

The next JLT my troop does is going to be one that me, my ASPL, and troop guide have put together. I'm thinking that will work better. I know I didn’t benefit from the official video and the activities that go along with it.

[WVBeaver05]

AS a leader for my entire scouting career i would say less than 1% of my knowledge came from attending a JLT.

That's very sad to hear! Having attended a great many courses and taught quite a few -- there should always be something that can be learned. I try to make it a point to work really hard to find something to learn especially if the course material or instruction isn't as good as it could be. I've reviewed the Troop JLT course material that we have and it looks like material that could be used pretty well with a little creativity and enthusiasm my the Scoutmaster teaching the course. Just using the video by it's self would be a pretty bad course.

The only way to learn to lead is by leading.

While there is truth in this (and not just for leading), I would suggest that we separate "learning" and "knowledge" from "experience". In almost all areas that I have been exposed to there are two distinct phases - Learning or gaining the knowlege and then gaining the experience to apply that knowledge. The way (IMHO) the course should work is to provide the background knowledge that is needed to build the skill as you practice it (i.e. through experience -- as you said - "... by leading").

I'll be teaching our new leaders in the next month and I hope to be able to use the BSA provided materials to give them some knowledge AND to get them thinking about how to handle different situations in a way that is supports the Scout Oath and Laws. This "thought provoking" is an area that I hope to be able to use the BSA video -- along with some discussion, questioning, and reflection. I have been able to use the videos in this manner for the adult leader training sessions that I have lead.

Hope the course that you have developed works well.

YiS

[616kayak]

That’s pretty much what I mean.

something off the top of my head. Has anyone tried this ?:

Which is why to supplement you JLT courses you should give each attendee a meeting or event in which they will be the acting SPL.
This will only work for smaller troops.
Have your SPl evaluate how he is doing and give him some tips while he is leading.

[scoutaholic]

As I said in my last post on this thread, we were about to do a troop-level JLT course. Now we have done it. Here is the report.

We ended up taking most of the old Scoutmasters Junior Leader Training program and using it with not much variation. We had planned to do this in conjunction with our monthly camp. The boys all wanted to use my Tipi, and since I have no vehicle in which to move it right now, we did the camping in my yard.

The boys arived Friday evening and we had dinner and setup the Tipi (and a tent for the leaders since we still wanted to follow BSA Youth Protection guidelines). We then went over to our church (we have access to the church building provided by our Charter Organization) for the training activities. We could have done the activities in the yard, but it was raining, and we didn't want to disturb the neighbors (and my wife).

We had fewer boys than we had expected, and the boys that were there didn't seem too interrested in learning leadership skills. They were all willing to play the games, but didn't want to participate in the "reflection" or watch the video. Even some of the games were hard to get them to participate without horsing around. I guess I failed in preparing the boys properly. Next time maybe I can get them more interrested beforehand so we don't have to fight them during the training.

We did the first 3 "Activities" on Friday night. I think some of the boys were actually starting to get some of the concepts we were trying to teach.

We came back to my yard late, had dessert, and I only had to warn the boys to be quiet a few times before they were all in bed.

On Saturday morning I woke them early, and they each got a bag for breakfast. Each bag was different and they had to work together to figure out how to make it into something for breakfast. (This is the prescribed "Activity 4" in the training sylabus).

After that we went back to the church for the rest of the training activities. After I locked their basketball in a closet, I only had to drag a couple of them back into the activities we had planned.

In the end, I think they all had fun in the activities and were able to learn some leadership skills along the way. Some of them may not want to admit it, but I think they did anyway. My SPL came to me afterwards and admitted that "most of it" was fun. He even agreed that he probably learned some usefull leadership skills.


Things I learned that I want to do better next time:
Plan the camp/activity farther from home. This way they won't have the option to leave part way through. (Only one did, but he was one that I had hoped would use the leadership skills in his current position). They also won't have the distractions that we had this time. The surroundings at the church were just too familiar for them.
Find a way to get the boys excited about the training before we go. Doing it because I suggested it and thought they need it isn't a good way to get their cooperation.
Find a way to better involve the boys in the "reflection"s. I think much of the learning is done here, but I didn't present it very well this time.
There may be a better way to present some of the concepts without the video. The boys were particularly unimpressed with the conflict resolution sections of the video. I'll be looking into other ways to teach these concepts in the new Troop Leadership Training or the new NYLT Syllabus.

[EagleBoy62204]

Slight update:

We decided to hold our JLT program and form it our own way. I dont like the new NYLT system, it doesnt seem to be effective as the JLT program.

A bunch of senior scouts who now are ASMs along with me decided to create our own program, doing alot of the stuff we were taught when we went through JLT years ago.

We featured alot of teamwork activities. Some occasions we brought the young ones to the camp for a day, to effectivly teach the boys who were going through the course how to teach and lead.

For our troop we only send the boys that are ready for the responsibility to JLT. Our requirement is that you have to be 13 and first class. We dont have many this year who are attending, but the ones who are, were under my wing when they joined and they know what it takes to take up the responsibility, weither it be SPL or ASPL or even Guide. Its interesting watching the ones you helped the last 2 - 3 years go from immatures little kids to responsible young adults.

Can't wait til they become older and have more chances to leave their mark in the troop.

[616kayak]

One tip is do not let your JLT stop when the JLT stops. Like I mentioned I learned most of my stuff through experience. During my year as Troop guide my responsibilities increased and my spl would always comment on how well I did to me and give me tips. If you guide your leaders they will learn a lot. They might not notice it but when they look back they will realize how much you taught them.

[WVBeaver05]

We are getting ready to do the training in the next month. I am expecting some of the same issues that Scoutaholic reported.

We had fewer boys than we had expected, and the boys that were there didn't seem too interrested in learning leadership skills.

How many Scouts did you have? And how many leaders attended? (I'm hoping to get a couple leaders to be present to see the process.)

Next time maybe I can get them more interrested beforehand so we don't have to fight them during the training.

Any thoughts on how to accomplish this?

Things I learned that I want to do better next time:
Plan the camp/activity farther from home. This way they won't have the option to leave part way through.

The surroundings at the church were just too familiar for them.

I suggested at the meeting of the new PLC that we do the training at a campout and this resulted in a healthy discussion (which was good), but the decision was to do it at the church. I would have preferred a campout and your experience seems to confirm it.

Find a way to get the boys excited about the training before we go. Doing it because I suggested it and thought they need it isn't a good way to get their cooperation.

I agree - any suggestions on HOW?

Find a way to better involve the boys in the "reflection"s. I think much of the learning is done here, but I didn't present it very well this time.

Anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Last year when I worked with the Council JLTC we saw the same reluctance to be involved in reflection.

In any case, our training is coming up soon. I'll report back on the results. In the meantime, any and all suggestions are welcome.

YiS

[scoutaholic]

We ended up with 8 boys total, but only half of them were part of our troop leadership. The JASM invited a friend from the Varsity Team, The SPL invited a friend from another troop (when others didn't show), and my 8-year-old son was there for some of the activities (that was a big mistake).
I had given copies of the syllabus to my 2 ASMs and the JASM. We had 4 "leaders", with the JASM acting as leader and boy.

Hopefully, those who attended this year can pass on some of the good experiences. I hope to make it a yearly training. I'm planning to bring up the idea in PLC, and see what they say. I hope they will jump on the idea and feel like they had something to do with the planning as well. It may also help when I hand out the "Trained" patches at the next Court of Honor.

The ASPL left after Saturday breakfast. 2 Boys had a family gathering planned at the church later on Saturday, and kept leaving the training to go help their sister setup (not that the sister needed help, they just wanted to escape the training). The final activity was to be a work project, and ended up being finished with just the adult leaders, as the youth all disappeard one at a time.
The other side of that coin, is that three of the boys wouldn't have come at all if we had been further away. The ASPL who left for baseball would have skipped camp if we couldn't get him back in time for practice. 2 other boys arrived late (after spending time in the emergency room with their dad), and would have missed us if we had gone somewhere.
The church was a good facility for the training activities we had planned. We just had trouble keeping the boys involved in the activities. They wanted to keep playing some games instead of talking about what they learned. When activities were hard or boring for them they wanted to escape. There was just too much room for them to wander. Once I locked-up the basketball, it was better, but some still wandered.

I think the problem with the "reflections" is that they didn't really know what to do. Honest and straight-forward communication on the emotional and real-learning levels may not have been modeled for them. I plan to try some of these types of reflection activities on a smaller scale in some of our other troop meetings. This may help. I may even consider showing them the SM portion of the video where the reflection is modeled.

[WVBeaver05]

I think the problem with the "reflections" is that they didn't really know what to do. Honest and straight-forward communication on the emotional and real-learning levels may not have been modeled for them.

I wonder if the problem with reflections has to do with the it being modeled or if this is related to the stages of youth development (thinking back to the New Leader Essentials video on the differences at different ages)? Could it be that some of the youth just aren't ready for "reflections"? (Where is a good Developmental Psychologist when you need one?)

Or, is it just something they need more exposure to and practice doing to become more proficient at it? If that is the case, then we really should be looking for more opportunities for them to learn this skill.

YiS

[Mrw]

If you actually introduced the concept as "Reflections" you probably lost most of the group right there.

That makes it feel like a touchy-feely meditation thing. EEEWWWW!!

Tell them that there is a breif discussion about did the activity go well and can you do better next time. Then you can tell them it is called a reflection if you want.

[WVBeaver05]

If you actually introduced the concept as "Reflections" you probably lost most of the group right there.

That is probably correct. I never use the word "relection" with our Troop, but the results seem to be the same. They are very hard to engage in a conversation. It seems like our Scouts are more likely to comment, usually quite briefly, when they were impressed with something that went wrong ( "...we forgot the butter and syrup for the pancakes...") than the things that went well.

Likewise, we have trouble getting them to describe things that they had fun doing to other Scouts who weren't able to attend an event. But, when we do get them started it is (usually) worth it. Same with relections.

Some days I just wish it was easier.

YiS

[WVBeaver05]

Well the plans are complete, the materials are ready and I am just waiting until Monday morning to see how our first Troop JLT goes.

Any final suggestions and/or thoughts will be appreciated.

I'll provide feedback on how it went next week.

YiS

[WVBeaver05]

As promised, here is a summary of the Troop JLT held today.

We were having trouble agreeing on a day for the course so our Scouts decided on today since they were all off school for spring break. I took a day of vacation and had two other leaders attend as well. We used the older materials with the activities and the video tape intended for a whole day. Based on information from a previous post, we used a church other than the one that we regularly meet at (since I was not able to convince them that a JLT campout would be a good thing).

We invited all Scouts in all positions of responsibility (10 from our Troop) and included 3 from a smaller ajacent Troop that has Scouts in the same Middle School as our boys. We ended up with 9 in attendance, but 1 got called and had to leave in the first hour and another had a Job Shadowing event that took him away about lunch time.

I didn't have any trouble keeping the Scouts on the activities, although they were kind of tired of it by the end of the day. Most of the boys paid attention and participated well.

The reflections went better than I expected. Most of the boys participated in the reflections very well. We didn't get much spontaneous discussion, but we did get very good responses to the standard open ended questions. I was afraid that we would not get any answers from some of the Scouts, but every one gave pretty insightful answers.

All in all, I thought it went very well and that the Scouts who were interested learned something about leadership.

I hope to keep building on this each year.

YiS