when is it time to ask a scout to leave the troop

[jk]

Meet with the parents, MAKE THE PARENTS UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION, decide on consequences (address the whole troop not just the two problems) Some examples of consequences depending on severity might be:
push-ups the amount can vary depending on the strength of the kid
clean up a gear closet, trailer, outhouse etc.
not allow the scout to come on a campout use some caution

When all else fails
Then ask the kid to leave.
Normally 50 push ups non stop every time they screw up will work.[/i]

[diamondbackAPL]

push-ups the amount can vary depending on the strength of the kid

Normally 50 push ups non stop every time they screw up will work.[/i]

In P.E. class when we're misbehaving, our coach makes us do pushups his way, which is where everyone gets in the "up" position, they go down when he tells us to, and we don't go back up until he tells us to. depending on how hard you have to hold it, It's very painful. The point of all this is to say that I want to try it with the misbehaving scouts in my troop, but my scoutmaster said that's punishing them and we can't do that.

[ASM-142]

push-ups the amount can vary depending on the strength of the kid

Normally 50 push ups non stop every time they screw up will work.[/i]

In P.E. class when we're misbehaving, our coach makes us do pushups his way, which is where everyone gets in the "up" position, they go down when he tells us to, and we don't go back up until he tells us to. depending on how hard you have to hold it, It's very painful. The point of all this is to say that I want to try it with the misbehaving scouts in my troop, but my scoutmaster said that's punishing them and we can't do that.

Punishing is the same as hazing which can not be done in scouts (and should not be done in school or anywhere else)

[evmori]

push-ups the amount can vary depending on the strength of the kid

Normally 50 push ups non stop every time they screw up will work.[/i]

In P.E. class when we're misbehaving, our coach makes us do pushups his way, which is where everyone gets in the "up" position, they go down when he tells us to, and we don't go back up until he tells us to. depending on how hard you have to hold it, It's very painful. The point of all this is to say that I want to try it with the misbehaving scouts in my troop, but my scoutmaster said that's punishing them and we can't do that.

Punishing is the same as hazing which can not be done in scouts (and should not be done in school or anywhere else)

Punishing is not the same as hazing! That's absurd to think that way! That means every time a parent punishes their child, they are hazing them? Not even close!

[ASM-142]

The type of punishing that I meant is in school or scouts where push-ups (or some other "punishment") are used when a boy/girl can not do something correct/complete.

Punishment when someone does something wrong is a different situation.

[evmori]

The type of punishing that I meant is in school or scouts where push-ups (or some other "punishment") are used when a boy/girl can not do something correct/complete.

Punishment when someone does something wrong is a different situation.

So if a Scout dumps a bucket of water on another Scout it's OK to punish him by making him do push-ups?

[616kayak]

It’s ok in my troop. The PLC voted unanimously on it. We have a saying in JROTC "you either get stronger or get smarter." I know this isn’t JROTC or the military but scouting is very similar and pushups work very well if you follow some basic rules. For example, you never drop any one for more than you can do, etc. Hey, its better than elbows and toes.

[wagionvigil]

Hate to burst your bubble BUT it is not OK even if the PLC approved it. It is totally against BSA policy and your troop could actually loose their charter for it

[jk]

How is punishing a child wrong?
If they have to do enough pushups they learn not to screw around at the wrong time.
If there is a boyscout rule against it then I still dont care. Just here is my disclaimer "Use at your own risk".
"Rules just hide the cold hard truth"

I am leaving this here just to let everyone kn ow we will not tolerate this type of posting. This against all BSA RulesJK is now off the forum
wagionvigil

[aflmom]

Can anyone share where assigning push-ups is considered punishment and against BSA regulations?

I'm just curious since push-ups are common in my son's troop. Course, he said they wouldn't call it punishment but physical fitness. The scouts don't seem to mind and I don't think the number is excessive. I've always accepted it as the 'norm' but guess it isn't.

norma

[cballman]

any form of physical punishment (ie pushups, running laps) is considered a big NO. if you read the Guide to Safe Scouting, the Scoutmasters Handbook it spells out what is considered wrong. also if any leaders have been trained then youth proctection guideline also fall into the equation. Many years ago when I was in scouting as a child different forms of punishment was used to treat improper behaviour. now did it hurt back then? yes but I learned was it a good thing now that I look back some was somw wasent. now look at the times present is the same type of punishment what is it called? Child Abuse so when you look into the forms of so called punishment no matter what you call it falls under the same thing. thats why it is banned under the Guide to Safe Scouting.

[evmori]

Actually, the G2SS state corporal punishment is not permitted, not physical punishment. I agree push ups are not usually appropriate punishment. The punishment should fit the crime, i.e., if a Scout continues to litter, place him on campsite clean-up.

[ASM-142]

The type of punishing that I meant is in school or scouts where push-ups (or some other "punishment") are used when a boy/girl can not do something correct/complete.

Punishment when someone does something wrong is a different situation.

So if a Scout dumps a bucket of water on another Scout it's OK to punish him by making him do push-ups?

NO!!!!

[wagionvigil]

The definition of corporal punishment is any punishment used to inflict pain. Believe me in most cases pushups inflict pain on these scouts.

[Mrw]

Punishment that does not "fit the crime" AND teach a better way has no place - in scouts, at school, in sports or anyplace else.

An errant scout needs to be disciplined, but not being able to go on the next outing or come to meetings they enjoy because of their behavior will teach them much faster than push-ups.

My kids would have quit rather than put up with that as a form of "discipline." Not that they were bad kids, but they aren't perfect either.

We have a boy who has had some temper problems in the past and got into a near fistfight at summer camp last year. We had a meeting with his mom to let her know our concerns and a meeting with him to make sure he understood our expectations. The troop elected him SPL last month. I guess the boys have recognized his improvements as well as the committee has commented on them.

[evmori]

The type of punishing that I meant is in school or scouts where push-ups (or some other "punishment") are used when a boy/girl can not do something correct/complete.

Punishment when someone does something wrong is a different situation.

So if a Scout dumps a bucket of water on another Scout it's OK to punish him by making him do push-ups?

NO!!!!

But the Scout did something wrong? I'm confused!

[Mrw]

How is doing push-ups related to pouring water on someone? A better consequence is for the boy that poured the water to have to clean up the mess and dry the wet things before he is allowed to rejoin the group doing something less onerous. He will learn about the consequences of throwing water where it does not belong and he will learn that if he makes a mess, then HE will clean it up - not anyone else.

[ASM-142]

The type of punishing that I meant is in school or scouts where push-ups (or some other "punishment") are used when a boy/girl can not do something correct/complete.

Punishment when someone does something wrong is a different situation.

So if a Scout dumps a bucket of water on another Scout it's OK to punish him by making him do push-ups?

NO!!!!

But the Scout did something wrong? I'm confused!

There is acceptable types of punishment to include reporting the problem to the scouts parents, having the scout sit out of an activity, or letting the committee deal with the scout.

If you do not know this or are uncertain you may want to consider going training

[evmori]

I was only asking because of your statements, ASM-142. I've been to training! I was a trainer! I understand what is and isn't allowed & follow the G2SS. Your statements were a little confusing to me.

[Lynda J]

Hazing is meant to be used to degrade a person. Expecting Scouts to behave or suffer the consequences isn't hazing. I guess that when we put a kid in detention at school for misbehaving that is hazing?
Kevin has a teacher that does not discipline her class at all. The class is totally out of control. She does not teach. And guess what none of her students respect her.

If you can't discipline you can't teach. Discipline does not have to be physical. But it does have to represent authority and it does have to have results for actions.

One of the most respected SM's in our district would have his boys do pushups. When the boy has finished this SM would walk up to him, shake his hand and thank him for his great effort. When he passed away, at the funeral his boys stood up and "gave him 10" It was out of respect for the fact that he refused to accept anything less than what their full potential was. They loved this guy and he is one of the SM that I will always have the upmost respect for. Discipline doesn't have to be mean. But is does have to be consistant, and it has to be fair.