BSA v. Organized Sports

[maricopasem]

I've been a little troubled by some threads that are critical of sports, team sports particularly. To talk about sports "taking boys away from Scouts" sounds presumptuous, to say the least. Maybe this "more worthwhile than thou" attitude is partly to blame for the decline in the number of Scouts.

If I were a boy in one of these troops I think I would have a hard time. I loved playing sports when I was a Scout and I was an Eagle with 4 palms. I think it went so well for me because I had leaders who cared about me and encouraged me in everything I did that was worthwhile.

If I had someone giving me grief about sports taking me away from Scouts I probably would have bailed out of BSA early on.

[Mrw]

There are boys who play sports and stay in scouts as they can around a sports schedule. Wonderful!!!

There are kids who play a sport and you don't know they exist for months on end. Sometimes this is unavoisable, but most kids could work in a momentary appearance on occasion. If they come back at the end of the season and participate again that is wonderful too.

Then there are the ones who only seem to do one activity at a time. And the parent comes and says that little Johnny can't be in scouts because he is playing summer baseball. These are really the kids (parents) that we loose quickly and that don't really get much benefit from the program because they can't see a way to participate when they can and still play sports. A lot of these never cross over because they Mom or Dad coun't manage junior league sports and Cubs at the same time. Once these kids get to the point where they are of age to cross over, many of them are also no longer playing the sport as they just weren't as interested or as good as they thought. But we have lost them just the same.

We need a better way of marketing scouting as an activity for a well-rounded background and not just as an alternative activity. I think a lot of people need to hear and see that scout still play sports and music and school clubs and plays and have jobs, etc.

Any ideas would be welcome.

[JazerNorth]

I have one that takes 3 months out for Soccer. He works his butt off during the other 7 months and is just as far, if not further as some of the older scouts in advancing.

JazerNorth

[FrankJ]

I think probably because this is a site about scouting things are expressed in a scout-centric way. The program tries to fit into life. That is why the rank requirements have such a loose defintion of "active". Try missing band practice or a team meeting.

[WVBeaver05]

While Frank is probably right that we tend to post messages from a Scouting point of view, the posts don't even come close to the negative positions that most other activities take. Even the Troops that take the most strict position on other activities don't begin to be as ridgid as the others.

Our Troop (and most others) is very accomodating for other activities. We enforce not penalties for missing meetings and/or activities. We provide follow up telephone calls to Scouts that miss meetings where events are planned. We consider this to be the proper position to take and are happy to have them when they are available and try to make the most of the time that we have.

As mentioned before, try that with sports, band, etc.

YiS

[Chief J]

In our troop we will not demean a Scout for being involved in Sports, church, or any other function. We actually encourage them to do so, and we have many Scouts who have to take a Leave of Absence for practice, etc.

The only caution we give the Youth is if they are going to be involved in another activity that will require them to be absent for a period of time, do not assume a leadership role that will hurt the troop. i.e., SPL, PL, etc.

Chief J

[vpalango]

Adding on to Chief J's comment....

When a boy does get pulled into other activities, we make sure that the scout and thier parents are very aware of the time in position and active in the troop requirements for various ranks.

We have some scouts who are in other activities, and loose 2-3 months of the scouting year. This results in thier need to work harder at scouting when they are "back".

So far, it hasn't been a problem for us, other than some boys who left (fairly early on in thier scouting careers) because they played in fall and spring sports. It was thier choice, as they couldn't manage homework, multple sports, and scouts.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

In part - one reason sports "take boys away from scouting" is because parents have a misconception that a boy can not miss any scouts because of a sport, therefore the parent decides to do the sport instead of both. But the scouting program will allow scouts to drop their attendance during a sporting season, unlike sports themsleves. Anyone with high school students knows an athelete can not miss practice for scouts.

Maybe this "more worthwhile than thou" attitude is partly to blame for the decline in the number of Scouts.

Or maybe it's because Scouts is not thought of as macho enough for some parents?

I for one do think Scouting has more to offer than high school sports for most youth - NOT ALL though. Why? Sports is limited to several months and concentrate on one thing - the sport. Unless a student is an exceptional athlete and recieve a scholarship towards college, or even the chance to play at a higher level, the benefits do not amount to that which one learns from the scouting program. Unless of course you count the future years of pain from sporting injuries?

I think a boy that's put many years into scouting and has earned his Eagle will benefit more from what he's learned/experienced than a boy that's spent many years on a school sports team and been captian of the team.

I think the other point some comments in threads make is that we scouters get frustrated when some parents grumble about the cost of scouting and can be some of the same parents that have no problem forking out the money for sporting costs.

Sorry if I sound harsh but it's just the way I feel.

[hops_scout]

It can work if you want it to work. That simple.

I am a three sport Varsity athlete. Also, I am serving now as a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster and before that, I served as the Senior Patrol Leader while playing varsity baseball! It can be done.

There is too much of "Them Vs. Us" floating around in both the Scouting world and the Sports world.

[maricopasem]

So, let's say a boy comes to you, the adult leader, for your opinion as to his desire to join the wrestling team with the understanding that doing so would curtail his time spent on Scout stuff. Would you discourage him from doing so? What if it was band or choir? What if it was to take Advanced Placement courses that would require extensive studying?

[Mrw]

They should be encouraged to do as much as they want and can do. Scouting is not their life and career. It is a part of who they are but should not be the only thing that defines them.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

maricopasem - No I would not discourage them from joining any other activity - that's a beauty about scouting, the fact that you can participate in more than just scouting. If you reread what I said, I stated that too often folks don't recognize that they can do both.
I agree with HOPS - they can manage both!

They should be encouraged to do as much as they want and can do. Scouting is not their life and career. It is a part of who they are but should not be the only thing that defines them.

I agree and currently do encourage boys to try as many avenues as they can.

[maricopasem]

Then I would assume you would conceal these feelings from him:

I for one do think Scouting has more to offer than high school sports for most youth - NOT ALL though. Why? Sports is limited to several months and concentrate on one thing - the sport. Unless a student is an exceptional athlete and recieve a scholarship towards college, or even the chance to play at a higher level, the benefits do not amount to that which one learns from the scouting program. Unless of course you count the future years of pain from sporting injuries?

[scoutaholic]

Then I would assume you would conceal these feelings from him:

I for one do think Scouting has more to offer than high school sports for most youth - NOT ALL though. Why? Sports is limited to several months and concentrate on one thing - the sport. Unless a student is an exceptional athlete and recieve a scholarship towards college, or even the chance to play at a higher level, the benefits do not amount to that which one learns from the scouting program. Unless of course you count the future years of pain from sporting injuries?

I don't know why you would need to conceal the information from him. If a boy comes to you for counsel and advice, you would best serve him by giving him the honest truth.

I had this conversation with a boy last year. I understand they you like to play ball, and that there are time commitments involved in joining a team. Understand that there will be scheduling conflicts, and you (with your parents) will have to decide which obligation/team/activity/etc is more important to you and your future. Ball is fun for now, and there are those who can go far in sports, however the odds are slim. Scouting can also teach many important and far reaching lessons. You and your parents will have to decide which is the higher priority.
This boy is playing on a ball team, and still manages to come to about 3/4 of our troop meetings. He sometimes has to miss a practice, or skip a game for camp, but he and his parents decide which is important for him.

[wagionvigil]

Scouts need to live a well rounded life. I have been a band director for 34 years. I was able to manage the two plus Fire Fighting and Dancing fencing Etc. Most troops that are worth anything will say hey we will be here whenever you can come but we need sports people to do the same which they will not. I work in a Quad A School District which is the largest in PA although we are at the bottom of the Quad A Scale. Last year we had 0 kids get scholarships to Division 1 Schools BUT I had 3 Students get Full Rides in Music at Divison 1 Schools. I had an Eagle from my troop get $5000.00 for college because he was an Eagle Scout. I have had two Eagles attend the Naval Academy. My son an Eagle is the Manager of the Largest Outfitter on the Yough beacuse he was and is an Eagle. he was #2 in Foil for his age in the State when he was 14. He balanced Fencing Soccer and Scouts and Scouts gave him the most of what he actually will use in his life. But go ahead we will welcome you with open arms

[deweylure]

Sports and Scouts cn co -exist. We have several boys involved in track and scoccer. The parents work around conflicts in scheduling by driving the scout to an outing later in the day after the game. Usually practice does not conflict it is held after school andthe meeting is at night.

I think most of the conflict arises when the parent simply has to many activities to jugle or they try to make their kids over achievers by forcing them into many extra curricular activities.

Deweylure

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Then I would assume you would conceal these feelings from him:

Quote:
I for one do think Scouting has more to offer than high school sports for most youth - NOT ALL though. Why? Sports is limited to several months and concentrate on one thing - the sport. Unless a student is an exceptional athlete and recieve a scholarship towards college, or even the chance to play at a higher level, the benefits do not amount to that which one learns from the scouting program. Unless of course you count the future years of pain from sporting injuries?

I don't need to conceal or divulge my thoughts to the scout. As I previously stated - I would not discourage a scout from participating in other activites period. I believe strongly that a scout can do both. I would remind the scout though that most sports will not tolerate any absenses so he would most likely have to forfeit a campout or two (which is fine) during the season, but that would be his choice to balance the two.

Now if a scout came to me and said he was thinking about joining a sports team at school and his parents have given him the choice to only do one of them and he was asking me my advise, that's a different story. I would give him my thoughts on the ups and downs of both programs, which would be promoting the scouts over the sports, then I would speak to his parents too.

[maricopasem]

Perhaps my issue is just a matter of perspective. I work with an LDS troop and Scouting is a "supplement" to the young men program. Scouting is not the end-all, be-all that it is in other organizations.

[summertop]

What are the aims of Scouting?

1. Character. Scouts and sports are pretty equal there.

2. Citizenship. Scouts has a slight advantage. But, sports also teaches a boy to "learn of his obligations to other people". To be a "team player", but also a leader.

3. Fitness. Sports has a slight advantage.

So, when a boy (usually a parent) askes for my advice, I tell them they are both worthwhile. The only caveat I give them is...They can do sports anytime, no matter how old. But they can only get their Eagle while they are under 18 years old. I have many scouts that are very active in sports (baseball, football, soccer, skiing, etc.) They are still on track to get their eagle by the age of 16.

Sports and Scouts can mix together just fine.

[Lynda J]

We needs to realize that in many school systems sports and band, though often not a graded subject, can affect other grades. I have had boys told if they miss a certain # of practices they are out. Well SCOUTING ISN"T THAT WAY. It is the only youth activity where there is no second string and we don't sit people on the bench and we don't kick them out for not coming every week.

Kids can do both. With out help and our encourgement. If we start telling them that they have to chose between Scouting and school sports Scouting will be the loser and in the long run so will the boy.

Have a boy in band this year. He won't be at our first 8 meetings because of band. Guess what we will welcome him back after that time with open arms. I will not give him a hard time. And even if asked my opinion I will not put his Scouting life above his school life. It isn't fair to him. Yes we do have to start making choices, but in Scouting it shouldn't be an either or.