Eagle Scout - Why do they wait til the last minute?

[MisterChris]

Oh, gee, a little bit of venting here from a frustrated Adv Chair. Hope y'all don't mind.

Had a boy 6 months ago in our Troop who had transferred from another troop and had all requirements complete for Eagle except for his Eagle Project.

He eventually quit coming and went to work. Mom pushed him to complete what he started. 1 month before his 18th birthday, he rolled into the troop meeting and wanted kids to come help with his Eagle Project (he'd been inactive for about 5 months).

The project hadn't been approved or reviewed, but we scrambled and made sure to get it signed by SM, Committee Chair, and District Eagle Board Chair.

Once the project was complete, I asked the boy to turn in a completed Application (I gave him Troop records for the dates) and project, letters of reccommendation, so we could set up a BOR. The boy's 18th birthday came and went, and after weekly and then daily calls to his home the parents told me 'Don't worry about it, we'll take care of it.'

Never heard from them again.

Now I have TWO boys. One will turn 18 on Monday, 5/8. One will turn 18 on 5/12.

First one has 3 Required MB to finish, 1 nothing has been turned in for, 1 is mostly complete, 1 requires me to contact a Troop the boy was in for Summer Camp but was not a member of 2 years ago, to get confirmation on passage.

He's requested an EXTENSION to complete his requirements, especially the unapproved project.
Council office says extensions are only given for documented disabilities or natural Disasters beyond the scout's control. (Katrina, say)
(Well, that's what I thought, but I thought I'd ask anyway).

So, he's going to have to complete EnvSci in 1 day, Complete community service for CitCom in 1 day, and do his service project this weekend as well. I've accepted his word that he completed the 12 weeks of PT for PhysFit back 2 years ago, as long as I get conf from the other SM about the remainder. Arrgh. Still no contact on the contact info for that SM.

I expect this guy will miss it. I feel partly to blame but feel I've done everything I can and MORE than I should have. I talked to him in Jan about all this, and sent out a panic email in early April.

Boy 2 has yet to turn in his completed project paperwork. His project was completed last weekend. He turned life in 2003. Completed all other requirements except 1 required MB by the end of 2003. He JUST completed that MB last Mon.

I think he's got a good shot at making it, but his BOR will be after his 18th birthday.

But it begs the question WHY!? they wait until it's too late or ALMOST too late, and we end up scrambling to help make it happen.

[scoutaholic]

It's hard to say what all the reasons might be. I think in many cases, it just is not a priority in their lives.

I am SM in an LDS troop. That means that a boy is automatically moved from the troop to the varsity team on his 14th birthday regarless of his desires or progress. In our unit, (and in most LDS units), little emphasis is put on scouting advancement in the team and/or crew. What a boy hasn't finished when he turns 14, he has to do mostly on his own.

As a boy gets older, he gets involved and interrested in more things. (ie, girls, cars, jobs, etc, etc, etc). It gets harder to stay involved and progressing in scouting.

Because of the above situations, I push all my boys to get as much done as possible before they turn 14. I have even resorted to bribes. (Any boy in my troop who finishes his Eagle before he turns 14 gets a special gift from me.) In 7 years, I have only had to pay up on the bribe twice, but I would be happy to do it more.

About a year ago, we had a group of 14-17 year-old boys who were in varied stages of not completing their Eagle. My wife and I started a 'future eagles' or 'eaglets' club. Every Sunday night for several weeks we had a group of boys over for dessert and MBs. We got 4 of them done with MBs and just needed their projects. We helped with project planning and approval paperwork where we could, and then left it to the boys to tell us when they needed more help. 1 turned 18 without getting his project approved. 1 got a project approved, and then didn't do sufficient planning and preparation, so he has to start over. 1 got his approved, and then waited nearly a year to get started. 1 waited months to get the approval, and then is not doing it. Two of these boys have been told by their parents that they can't drive until they get their Eagle. Both have now turned 17 and still don't have drivers licenses.

A few years back, we had a boy do a last minute project, and finish just before he turned 18. I harrassed him about paperwork several times for the next few months. The paperwork was finally completed and turned in 6-months after his birthday. The council accepted his application with the exception that he had to have a good reason for being so late with the papers. At his BOR, they asked him about it, and his excuse was not impressive. He had to get letters explaining his special circumstances (which I think were pretty weak), to get the national office to approve his application.

When I was a youth, I was just as bad. I had finished most everything I needed when I was 13 or 14. I was busy as JASM, and OA Chapter Chief, and several other things, and just didn't do much on my Eagle. I finally did a project when I was nearly 17. After the project, I knew I had earned the Eagle, and the recognition itself was not important to me. I didn't do the paperwork for another year. My Eagle BOR was on my 18th birthday (if I remember correctly) even though I had completed it much earlier. When the paperwork came back from council/national (I don't know exactly how it worked back then), I didn't want to make a big deal about it. I just wanted to go buy the emblem at the scout shop and be done. My SM wouldn't hear of that option, but he couldn't make me plan my own COH. He ended up presenting the emblems in a 2 minute ceremony during our church services.

[Mrw]

We have had some do about the same thing. Some finished, some did not. I will work with them and chase after them to a point. I do make it very clear that everything has to be finished before they turn 18 and the absolute latest they can turn in the signed and completed application to Council is on their 18th birthday.

Some of these kids seem to be resisting finishing just because they are trying to resist being on someone elses's schedule.

Right now we have 6 kids either working on or ready to start planning their projects. One is a 17 1/2 yr old who just transferred in from another troop and the other 5 are 14-15 and just finishing 9th grade. There is one more boy in that group and He has a long way to go to catch up with these guys. I don't really think he cares.

For some reason this group has just become very driven to complete their Eagles as soon as possible. And we had to push and prod really hard to get them to firast class in under 2 1/2 years!

[deweylure]

Why do teenage boys procrastinate ? The previous posts hit it right. Cars,girlsand sports.
If we as SM and ASM do all we can to encourage a boy to advance and he does not I can not feel bad. We get all boys thru 1st class. After that I cant force a scout to get a MB.
I do tell all boys that MB like Family LIfe ,Personal Fitness etc take a while to earn and I tell them to earn these early on. I have heard of other instances where a scout needed familylife and ran ouit of time.

Deweylure

[MisterChris]

Way back in the last century, my Dad told me they had changed the rules, you had to get Eagle before you were SIXTEEN.


Yep, Hook, line, and Sinker.

But I'm very glad I believed him. Because without his size 9's firmly upside my rear I'd have an Adv Chair bemoaning my lack-o-enthusiasm, and at this point I'd be crying about how I never quite got to Eagle.

Car and job would have derailed me. This shy guy had his first date at his senior prom. And that's cuz my English teacher MADE me buy tickets.

[WVBeaver05]

Perhaps I can provide some input on this. You see, way back when, I was a Scout. I did complete my Eagle, but just barely. I completed the requirements before my 18th birthday, had my BOR and COH after (COH, joint with a couple other Eagles about 5 weeks after I turned 18, so not as bad as some mentioned here).

My reasons were many. I had been Life since before 16. (Advancement was slower then -- you couldn't work on 2nd class requirements until you had completed Tenderfoot, etc.) By age 16 there were many other things competing for my time (and yes, girls were part of the reason - but so were High School Sports and other extra curricular activities). At that time I was in an Explorer Post and one of the reasons was that there were more activities appropriate to our older age. Unfortunately, some of these activities were also competing for time that would have gone toward merit badges. (Believe it or not, the Explorer Olympics and Road Rally don't really get you merit badges.) Then there were jobs and college entrance exams, etc. etc.

Bottom line -- the older the Scout gets the more things are going to compete for his time.

YiS

[riverwalk]

My own son was one of the last minute Eagles I think about. He would put off some things the way I did (do?). Anyway, if the Scouters have the infrastructure in place to work with Candidates, Troops are trying to work with them, and parents are involved....then none of "us" did anything wrong. We all know the small number that make it to Eagle. I don't know the precentage for those close, but just didn't get their act together. It might be interesting to publish how many were that close and stopped?

My own cousin coined it this way, when I asked her if her third son was making Eagle. She says, "no I don't think he'll complete his...perfume and gasoline".

Maybe when all that goes high enough, they'll stick around for their Eagle, haha.

[Mrw]

I know a guy who spent 8 years in grad schhol working on a PhD. Took all the classes and did all the research. Never finished writing the paper.

I guess one of the organizational things about earning Eagle is the ability to meet some kind of deadline and some guys will just never get there.

[Scouting179]

This is a very common problem. The reasons are many. However, consider that most Scouts have 7 years or so to get this done as most join a troop at about age 11, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. Should we advise them and help them, yes, but it is also unfair for them to wait this long and expect us to bend over backwards, especially when they have been advised not to wait so long all along. The question is: How much bending over are we willing to do? Many will probably think this harsh, but my feeling is that if they want it enough, they won't wait so long as to alienate everyone trying to help them. Being an Eagle requires motivation and gumption to want it yourself without an excessive amount of babysitting. At age 17y, 11m, 21d, we shouldn't still be holding their hand.

[vpalango]

I tend to agree with Scouting179... Part of achieving Eagle is getting the work done within the time alloted. Also important is the saying "It's the troops job to get a scout to First Class. It's the scouts job to achieve Eagle rank".

My general opinion is that if the scout is bending over backward to get the work done, then troop leadership should work with him to get it done. However, if the scout did virtually no work until they are "under the gun" of the deadline, the argument can be made that the scout may be forced to deal with the consequences of his decisions, and perhaps not make Eagle.

In general, I work to support any boy who is truely doing the work to make Eagle, and shows the scout spirit of an Eagle. However, for it to continue to be a high honor, it should be hard to achieve, and far from "automatic".

[wagionvigil]

No Eagle! No Drivers license!
It worked

[MisterChris]

Okay, update:

Last Monday, 1st scout completed req for 2 of his MB, this weekend, completed the remaining - he was a busy guy this weekend - had to run his project around getting it signed, work 8 hours community service for CitComm, burn 35 flags in ceremony on the Mayor's lawn - Got Mayor to participate, as well as several uniformed officers. Got several scouts to participate in collecting flags, including one that had flown on the Natl Capitol. Sunday he came over and completed all requirements for Env Science (kudos to Craig for keeping his PDF forms updated!) - He had done significant web research and work. He's done, what seemed to me an insurmountable task.

I believe he's been self-motivated, I haven't even seen Mom or Dad.

2nd boy called yesterday, his project is completed, paperwork signed. I'm gathering his paperwork tonight for the council filing.

[Chiefsttryker]

I was one of those last minute Eagles.
I would say that for most scouts it is cars and girls, but for me it was different. My dad is a methodist pastor and we move around like people in the service. I had tto move around alot and then the last troop i was in was OA heavy so I got distracted with the indian affairs stuff. My BOR was three months after my b'day cause it took them that long to find my records from three different council's.
I think for most scouts it is cars, sports and girls or that they are too lazy to do the work. Of course I have always have wondered how many have circumstances that similar to mine.

chiefstryker

[Billiken]

No Eagle! No Drivers license!
It worked

Exactly.

In my group of teen-age friends there were six of us that became Eagle Scouts. I recently saw two of the group at my 25-year high school reunion. One lives in Illinois, near St. Louis, the other in Texas. None of us had seen each other in probably 20 years.

Both friends were withholding driver's licenses from their respective sons. Both boys in question were 100% finished (project, MBs) except for completing their Eagle paperwork.

[USforester]

MisterChris, chill! It IS up to the SCOUT to get it done. While we would like more to reach Eagle it doesn't happen for many reasons. As an Eagle I encourage a number of scouts but some just blow it off. I stopped feeling bad for them as we've talked enough to emphasize the importance for them, college applications and life ultimately they must be the ones to cross the finish line. As others have said most have the time and talent they just need to be motivated to get it done.

[616kayak]

I feel Eagle is more about the journey than the destination, but it can spoil the end of the journey if you have to rush through it.

[pipestone1991]

whatever did happen to those kids (err...men?), did they recieve Eagle rank?

[Bfitz]

I just posted a reply in the Eagle at 13 discussion regarding this same "other side of the age-spectrum" idea.

It's understandable. Teenage lives get busier- priorities get in the way. Those scouts rushing at the last minute to get Eagle never experience the prideful feeling of wearing the badge to meetings and other Scout functions. This is a feeling only Eagle Scouts can relate with. Reaching the summit yields a great view.

I received my Eagle at 15.5 years (1979) and was able to wear the badge to meetings. Scouts and adults treat you different when wearing the badge. The Scouts look up to the Eagles. Whether you earned Eagle at 13 or 17 you've earned the respect along with all the rights and priviledges that go with the rank.

Its almost as-if the Scout who receives his Eagle too-late gets it as a "parting gift" from the Troop.

The journey to Eagle is a wonderful one. Sometimes the view from the summit is not appreciated at a young age but better appreciated years after the view was taken in.

Just my thoughts.

[imjorman040991]

No Eagle! No Drivers license!
It worked

Thats what my dads doing, and im gonna be eagle next month...so yes, it works very very well

[lifescoutforlife]

I know a few scouts that there parents said the same thing "no eagle, no drivers license" this seems to work in most cases.