Reneging on SM Conference

[MaScout]

Has anyone ever felt the need to renege on a SM Conference before the BOR took place? How would you go about it? Is it "legal"?

i.e. SM Conference for Eagle. Boy passed with flying colors. Boy stole $300 (from SM). (Side lesson: Boy is good actor.) BOR not held yet. Can he be held up?

[ASM-142]

Once a SM signs off on something s/he can not un-sign. However, he may be able pass on information to the board about the scouts character

[wagionvigil]

That would be where the Council Executive would get involved.

[evmori]

You can't pass or fail a SM conference. The requirement states
Take part in a Scoutmaster conference.

So if the SM & Scout have a conference, the requirement is completed.

[FrankJ]

Pass that information along to the BOR. Or better have a BOR for that specific matter before advancement BOR & remove the scout from the program if warranted.

[riverwalk]

Yes, I would also recognize the conference, as completed. But he's probably going to be out of the Program now due to breaking all the rules.

[fritz1255]

I have sat in on one Eagle Board of Review. All Eagle BOR's in our district are chaired by one person, who is also in charge of approving projects. I asked him if anyone had ever failed an Eagle BOR. He mentioned two incidents, one where the Scout had changed the Eagle project and altered the documentation (The BOR Chair had kept a copy, so the Scout was "busted"), and one where the Scout had been arrested for vandalism of a public park just before the BOR (I think this is similar to the situation described in the original post). Probably should let the BOR Chair know what is going on.

[MisterChris]

You can't pass or fail a SM conference. The requirement states
Take part in a Scoutmaster conference.

So if the SM & Scout have a conference, the requirement is completed.

This is from the Training Module on SMC:

The requirement for advancement is that the Scout participate in a Scoutmaster's conference, not that he "pass" the conference. Even after a negative Scoutmaster's conference, if the Scout desires a board of review, he should be granted his request.

It also appears that there is no point of 're-testing' (SMC or BOR) so when a scout has been signed off on a requirement, that passage stands.

This means it needs to be caught early if a person is passing things without the required work. It cheats the scouts of valuable training, and cheapens the entire program.

[Scouting179]

You can't "undo" a signoff once it's done. But it can, and in this case should be, passed onto the next stage/level, which in this case is the people on the BOR. From there, it's less obvious what would happen, such as the outcome of the BOR or an appeal if one were filed in the event of a denial.

Chowanac District Eagle BOR rep

[evmori]

But if a requirement was signed off & the Scout never did it, how can the sign off be valid?

[Scouting179]

It's the job of the person making the sign off to ensure it was done and the Scout properly completed it. If such a case is appealed to National, they will uphold the sign off. If this is found out before the SMC, the SM can easily deal with it. After that point, it becomes much more of a problem.

[MaScout]

Update: The boy (age 15, I have known him since he was 5) returned the money. I am not pressing charges. This has been debated, but I feel that in this case that is not the right answer. He has had a SM Conference on the incident as well as a Troop BoR (parents present). As a team, we are all working to help this young man advance...and I don't just mean get his Eagle, I mean advance in maturity, knowledge, etc. To BECOME an Eagle.

I have spoken to the District & Council Advancement Chairs, COR, IH, DC, & UC and told them what happened. I will be having a police officer speak to the young man. The young man considered changing troops. I told him he was welcome to but reminded him he needed 6 months active in that troop before he could advance and that when the new SM asked me why he transferred, I WOULD tell him/her.

As it stands now: The boys advancement is stalled out until/if I determine he is trustworthy again. This includes a time period to "watch" to make sure this is an isolated incident, demonstration of leadership within the troop, possibly attendance at JLTC, etc. He confessed in front of the troop (his choice). When I feel the time is right, I am to contact the District Adv Chair & he will schedule the BoR.

Thanks to all for taking the time to reply! Your insight & ideas were valued.

[Lynda J]

At 15 he has time not only to complete his Eagle but to grow in maturity, responsibility and character. My dad was always big on giving kids second chances.
When I was in highschool (many moons ago) there was a young man (15)in the BS troop at our church that got himself in lots of trouble. They were talking about having him removed from the troop. My dad went to bat for him. Talked them into letting him stay. Dad worked hard with this kid. About 6 months before his 18th birthday my dad stood up with him as he received his Eagle. I don't know who was prouder. Him, his mother or my dad. This young man went on to be a very respected attorney in my home town. He does a lot of work with troubled kids. And lots of free legal work for kids. So hopefully if someone can stand by this young man, give him some guidance and support he might truly earn the rank of Eagle.

We have become a throw away society. Many times with a kid that gets in trouble we throw them away. Lets try giving them another chance.

[Scouting179]

"Troop BoR (parents present)."

What are parents doing at a BOR? Only committee members are supposed to be there, except the SM can be there at Eagle BORs as a non-speaking observer.

[DadScout]

What are parents doing at a BOR? Only committee members are supposed to be there, except the SM can be there at Eagle BORs as a non-speaking observer.

Parents can attend any meeting/function within the BSA. Take this quote from the G2SS

All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

While I would not encourage a parent to attend a reqular BOR, this case seems the exception. Note since the boy was going for Eagle this BOR done in the troop does not count towards advancement.

[wagionvigil]

Bill You better read the advancement guidelines. Parents are not permitted at a BOR.

[MisterChris]

What are parents doing at a BOR? Only committee members are supposed to be there, except the SM can be there at Eagle BORs as a non-speaking observer.

Parents can attend any meeting/function within the BSA. Take this quote from the G2SS

All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

While I would not encourage a parent to attend a reqular BOR, this case seems the exception. Note since the boy was going for Eagle this BOR done in the troop does not count towards advancement.

Parents are not allowed to attend a BOR. Look it up under already linked documents regarding the BOR process.

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html

The paragraph on Who Conducts the BOR states that obviously, parents may not serve on a BOR. The SM should not be present during the BOR, even as an observer, according to that paragraph. He can be present to hear the results. The paragraph doesn't outline specifically whether the PARENTS can be present or not, but it cuts across the 'Leaders' section you quoted in the G2SS.

You can call this contradictory mandates but they really aren't.

If there are concerns about 'child protection' I see no reason why the meeting cannot be held somewhere where there is a glass barrier.

We hold our BORs (Eagle and others) in a glass-walled library. A parent can observe the entire proceeding from outside. If they insisted they be allowed to 'hear' what was going on, I'd simply ask them to bring a baby monitor. Never had that happen.

As you mention, The Bor in question here I believe was more of a 'Board of Inquiry' or a meeting between Committee leadership, SM, parents, and scout to explain what was going on and what the path forward was for the scout.

Flames welcome.

[DadScout]

Parents can't sit on a BOR, that's how I read the advancement guidelines. Sitting on and attending/observing are not the same. I take it that when the advancement paperwork goes into Council that parents signature should not be on it as a member of the BOR.

We've also noted that this was no averge BOR.
Personally I'd never ask to be in attendance for my own kids.

[Billiken]

I would never come to one of my son's BORs.
I believe that parents should NOT attend BORs.

HOWEVER, while my son is a Boy Scout (minor), I certainly reserve the right to attend ANY BSA function, location, or event he may be attending.

[FrankJ]

I wouldn't encourage parents to attend a BOR either, but it seems they could if they insisted. I certianly would spend some time to address there concerns, and try to make them understand the reasons not to attend. I have never seen this to be a problem allthough I sure they are cases out there.

Eagle BOR is a different matter the Advancement Committee Guide, published by the same BSA that publishes G2SS, specifically states that parents are not allowed to attend an eagle BOR. I have no idea which would take precedence if it came down to brass tacks..

On a different subject: Linda you are spot on about giving second chances. I really liked your example.