Reneging on SM Conference

[ThunderingWind]

"Troop BoR (parents present)."

What are parents doing at a BOR? Only committee members are supposed to be there, except the SM can be there at Eagle BORs as a non-speaking observer.

If I am reading this thread correctly, the parents were present at this "special" BoR based on the events leading up to it (the theft). In my humble opinion, I find this to be acceptable, if that is indeed the case.

[Scouting179]

It may be allowed by that guideline, but read the Advancement Guide. Either way, it's a bad policy. By the time a kid gets to Eagle, he shouldn't have to have parents there. If the parents want to know want a BOR is about, then they can become committee members. I've never before heard of a troop allowing parents at a BOR, for any rank. Parents should not be a BOR, the Scout needs to stand on his own.

If this was a special BOR, that needs clarified. Was this BOR for actual advancement or was it more of a review. BORs for Scouts not advancing are in the rulebook, but I don't think "special" BORs are. Can the orginator of the thread please clarify this?

[vpalango]

What are parents doing at a BOR? Only committee members are supposed to be there, except the SM can be there at Eagle BORs as a non-speaking observer.

Parents can attend any meeting/function within the BSA. Take this quote from the G2SS

All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

While I would not encourage a parent to attend a reqular BOR, this case seems the exception. Note since the boy was going for Eagle this BOR done in the troop does not count towards advancement.

In my opinion, you can't bar a parent from the BOR, but you can ask that they not particpate in any way, and to simply observe. I'd also say that they be strongly discouraged from attending BORs unless they have a specific reason to. The BOR is a time when the boy should be speaking with adults other than his parents about his scouting experience. The Review is between the scout and the Board.

In trouble cases, the scout and parent might participate in a joint scoutmaster conference, or even as an agenda item on a troop committee meeting (potentially) but the Board is a different forum in my opinon.

In regard to Eagle BORs. In my experience, the parent is usually there, but in another room. It would be VERY uncomfortable for the board members to have a paernt looking "over thier shoulder" when doing that review. Again, they can't be absolutely bared (G2SS rules), but they can be encouraged to allow the review to be between the boy and the board.

[Scouting179]

the quote on the parent thing is in another active thread. As I said, it only says the SM can be there, not the parents.

[FrankJ]

The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

This is from guide to safe scouting. The bold is theirs not mine. How do reconsile this to not allowing parents to observe a BOR? The bit in the advancement guide applies only to eagle BOR.

I am not arguing they should attend. I think they shouldn't attend unless requested by the board.

[Mrw]

I would suggest to a parent that they sit in on the BOR for a different scout to see how they run abd what they are all about.

[wagionvigil]

The advancement Guidelines say they should not attend. The G2SS really does not cover this as long as you have 2 deep leadershipo you have met the requirement. What the G2SS refers to in a way is the OA. I have made arrangements for parents to watch the Vigil calling out Ceremony from the woods or in one case the Ordeal ceremony BUT without the Scouts knowing they were there.
I have set on Many Eagle BOR and I would Probably refuse to take part if a parent was in the same room.

[Lynda J]

Most of the parents that I know that would want to sit in on an Eagle BOR are the ones that the kid is being pushed hard. Have one dad that is pushing so hard I finally ask him if his son was earning Eagle or if he was earning it again.

Many times the Scout will be much more relaxed if the parents aren't there
Personally I will not want to observe Kevin's Eagle BOR.
I will do like someone else said. Pace and worry.

[Scouting179]

I would not allow the parent of a candidate to even observer a BOR. It's actually against the Adv Guide rules for them to be a BOR member.

[Lynda J]

No they can not sit of the BOR but they can observe. YOu can't keep them out.

[Scouting179]

It doesn't say that anywhere. It only allows the SM as an observer. Not to mention that for most kids having the parents there would be unnecessary additional pressure.

As the Adv Guide specifically addresses BORs, it overrides any generalized statements and conclusions that may be drawn from the G2SS. There is no need whatsoever for parents at a BOR.

[FrankJ]

Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies. The bit we are discussing is in bold type. Since G2S is essentially a safety document, I would think it would be the one you would have to follow.

On the other hand the parents that were absolutely insisting on their presence are probably the one you really don't want to attend.

[Scouting179]

Parents don't need to be at a BOR for safety reasons as the minimum number of BOR members is three, plus the SM is allowed. You're mixing apples and oranges.

[ASM-142]

Parents don't need to be at a BOR for safety reasons as the minimum number of BOR members is three, plus the SM is allowed. You're mixing apples and oranges.

The parents may not need to be there (your opinion) but you can not keep them out if they and the scout want them to be there.

[FrankJ]

Parents don't need to be at a BOR for safety reasons as the minimum number of BOR members is three, plus the SM is allowed. You're mixing apples and oranges.

It is not for safety reasons. It because it is what the G2S says in black and white. You can say it was put there for a different reason and probabaly be right, but that does not change what it says. If the BSA wants to change the text in G2S they can otherwise it says what is says..


My issue is The Guide to Safe Scouting is supposed to be the one document you do not compromise: especially the youth protection guide lines. G2S is there primarily to insure a safe program. But it is also there to protect the scouters running the program. That proctection is weakened every time some says "it really doesn't mean that."

[JazerNorth]

Parents don't need to be at a BOR for safety reasons as the minimum number of BOR members is three, plus the SM is allowed. You're mixing apples and oranges.

The parents may not need to be there (your opinion) but you can not keep them out if they and the scout want them to be there.

Absolutely correct! If I asked and the BOR said no, then I would have to assume that incorrect behaviour is happening in the BOR and would cause me great concern. The parent is the person who is ultimately responsible for the child, and no where (even in courts & police) can the child be seperated from the parent (except when the parent may be causing the child harm). Do not ever think that the BOR cannot allow the parent to observe. In fact, do not ever think that a parent cannot observe any part of scouting. If any unit says that a parent cannot observe, then that should give a BIG RED FLAG that something very innappropriate is happening.

JazerNorth

[mhjacobson]

Read the NEW Board of Review Training materials that are placed on the National BSA website (Jan, 2006 printing):

"The board of review is how the troop committee (or the Eagle Scout board of review) tracks the progress of a Scout to determine his understanding of the ideals of Scouting and how he applies them in daily life in the troop."

later on in the document, it talks about the 3 reasons why the committee will hold a board of review (and always following the Scoutmaster's Review):

1. for advancement
2. to find out why the scout is not advancing
3. if there is a problem with the scout

In this case, it would certainly be appropriate for the Troop Committee to hold a BOR, and dealing with the type of issue at hand, having the parents present (he did commit a crime) as long as it wa for issue #3 and not being treated as an advancement BOR.