Belonging to the OA

[wagionvigil]

OK Folks I need a Definite answer to this one. Not opinions. Can a Member in the OA use his Merit Badge Counselor Registration as the requirement to being a Lodge member "A registered Member of the BSA"? This is there only position in scouting and no regiatration fee is paid.

All the former Lodge Adv. including myself say no. (8 were at the weekend) The Council Field Director Says Yes.
In the Same area can they use that registration to attend Philmont? Again we say no.

[RWSmith]

Bro. WaigonVigil,

I agree with you; your CFD is incorrect. But, go here to get the OA membership facts:

http://www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/ttrpak/A1-Unit-Elections.pdf

I'm no more the "authority" on this than anybody else in here. But, the PDF file I referenced above, pretty well spells it out.

Read this, if you're interested in an opinion: A MBC (nor an IH, for that matter), even though he or she may be registered as such, with the Council, does not make him/her a "registered member of the BSA." Only Adult Scouters, i.e., unit level ULs and MCs (incl. District- or Councl-level Scouters that are dual-regeistered and, thereby, affiliated with a unit) who have paid the annual registration fee, are considered "registered members of the BSA." Occassionally, you will find District- or Councl-level Scouters that have paid the annual reg. fee but, are only registered at the District or Council level--not dual-registered with a unit. They, too, are consider "members of the BSA" and may be considered for membership in the OA. Technically, the way I read it, for adult membership into the OA, the Scout Executive may waive "the unit-level involvement" for adult candidates who are not active in a unit, per se... i.e., UCs, DCs, Camp Staff, MBCs, IHs, etc... for the potential (future) good of the order and never for honorary (past) purposes. However, not even the Scout Executive can waive the camping requirement; adult candidates must meet the same camping requirements the as youth candidates.

Let me know what you think, once you've read it.

[optimist]

If I read what you are saying correctly, this person was already a member of the OA at some point in the past and is simply trying to continue that affiliation in a year that the only position he holds is that of merit badge counselor. I know you asked for a definite answer, not opinion, but I'm afraid my research came up with nothing. Unfortunately, the document which Bob linked to only provides discussion about new members joining, not discussion about former members paying annual dues.

My take on this is real simple. Merit badge counselor was a paid position until a few years back. The fact that the BSA chose to waive the joining fee for this particular position does not make the person who joins that way any less of a member as any other member. They sign the same form and agree to the same requirements. As such, they have the same rights as any other member and must follow the same rules. This would include being a member of the OA if they meet the qualifications.

As for a trip to Philmont, do we require all adults who assist with Philmont Treks be members or is it like any other campout where outside adults may serve as additional leadership? If the latter is true, there is no issue at all since he wouldn't have to be a member. If membership is required, then I still say a merit badge counselor is a registered member. In either case, if I am the leader of an expedition I'm going to take the people who I feel can best contribute both on the trek and afterward by sharing the experience. Someone who simply only wishes to be a merit badge counselor probably wouldn't be at the top of my list.

[wagionvigil]

Actually he is a Vigil Honor Member. But lets look at it another way . This person is a Brotherhood and is up for and elected to Vigil Honor. When the Application goes in to National Are all Merit Badge Counselors registered there as a SM or CC etc.?
I will probably call Texas tomorrow.

[optimist]

Since I don't work in the national office, I couldn't say. However, my guess would be yes.

[RWSmith]

Sorry guys,

I misread the joined vs. member part. But, since I better understand it, now, Bro. Waigonvigil, please allow me to stick my other foot in mouth...

I still think it's going to be the Scout Executive's call.

If I may, back to the "candidate" thing....

OT1H, we all know that, to maintain (or restore) membership in the OA, you must be "registered" with the BSA council affiliated with the Lodge to which you need to pay dues. OTOH, Vigil Honor candidates must be Brotherhood members for two (or more) years, at the time of selection by the Vigil Honor nominating committee. But, here's my question... Isn't one of the requirements, one of the key components to Brotherhood membership in the order, to continue to serve my unit?

BTW, I can tell you this... a cross-reference to the “Vigil Honor” section of the Handbook has been added to the Guide for Officers and Advisers (GOA) #34997C, Revised 2004, “Choosing Vigil Honor Candidates.” A more complete explanation of the meaning and selection criteria for Vigil membership is provided in the Handbook.

I think it's a great topic and I appreciate you bringing it up. I, too, would like to know -for shore- if MBC is good for OA Lodge membership.

I'd like to know what you find out.

[Guneukitschik]

Well a merit badge counselor is registered only for listing purposes and the background check....but I don't believe that they are offical members of the BSA. They don't pay dues....they aren't listed on a charter anywhere?

I would also have to agree with you and say "NO" to your original question.

[wagionvigil]

I have the National Number and will get a definite answer after 3:00 PM today. How much you want to bet I get a should be, BUT!!!!!

[Guneukitschik]

You will probably be told to flip your application over and read the fine print!!!

[wagionvigil]

OK Folks here is the Official Reply from National. Call your Region Office.
SO I did and the real answer is Ta TAH!!!
Merit Badge Counselor can be in the OA IF it is a paid registration. In our council most are not paid so they do not count. So all they have to do is pay the adult registration fee each year.

[Scouting179]

I am new to the forum, so I just read this. I am not surprised at National's response as if someone is only a MBC, they are not on a unit's charter and furthermore, to be elected to the OA (at least in our Lodge), both youth and adults must be registered with a troop, registration with only a Pack or Crew is not sufficient. Does anyone know if this "troop only" rule is a OA national policy or is it just our lodge that came up with this?

[wagionvigil]

That is a national rule . The person in question was actually a Vigil from another lodge from years ago. remember each district may put in an adult and the Council may put in an adult and the Supreme chief may do what he pleases.

[Billvann]

Is there a reason the MBC doesn't want to register as a leader. If he is interested in renewing his membership in the new lodge, it would seem logical that he would do so with the intent of actively serving others and the small hurdle of filling out another application witha registration fee would seem insignificant to me. Unless he just wants to attend lodge events and not participate in scouting directly, which runs counter to OA ideals where support of the troop comes first. Besides the "fine print" of the rules, one should also consider the intent when making a judgement decision. Sometimes we let the rules get in the way of achieving our goals and objectives. Will the program be better off with his participation or will a generous interpretation dilute the value of membership, and it is an interpretation at this point since national is refering it to the region where different regions may have different interpretations.

[pipestone1991]

Well to pay the adult fee wouldn't the vigil member have to be with a chartered troop?

[Chief J]

Well to pay the adult fee wouldn't the vigil member have to be with a chartered troop?

No, though most paying adults do so at the unit level, it is possible that an adult only works at National or Council and can pay their registration when the District/Council files their recharter packets.

Chief J

[ilduncans]

OK Folks I need a Definite answer to this one. Not opinions. Can a Member in the OA use his Merit Badge Counselor Registration as the requirement to being a Lodge member "A registered Member of the BSA"? This is there only position in scouting and no regiatration fee is paid.

All the former Lodge Adv. including myself say no. (8 were at the weekend) The Council Field Director Says Yes.
In the Same area can they use that registration to attend Philmont? Again we say no.

Interesting topic -- a shame I didn't see it almost two years ago ...
Three facts are needed to fully answer this issue:

fact #1> a Merit Badge Counselor is a registered member of the BSA. There is absolutely no gray area on this. They are listed in ScoutNet just like any other district-level volunteer leader.

(interesting side note: merit badge counselor is a _district_ position -- never a unit position -- so in the previous citation to the election procedures for Adults, the separate paragraph for Adult Leaders in Council and District Positions applies, and not the paragraph on Adult Leaders in Units. It is correct that MBCs are not listed on any charter, but that is also true of any other paid district level volunteer registered only at the district level, and not limiting to this topic. Consider the interesting case of an adult volunteer registered only as a chapter or lodge advisor -- not on any unit's charter, but quite possibly a good nominee for the Vigil Honor).

fact #2> the only Order of the Arrow requirement in this regard is to be "a currently registered member of the Boy Scouts of America".

Answer: Yes, a Member in the OA _could_ use his Merit Badge Counselor Registration to meet the requirement. Your Council Field Director had it right.

fact #3> The Supreme Chief of the Fire (a.k.a. your council executive) can do he wants in this respect -- right, wrong, or otherwise -- and practically speaking, no one is going to trump in. I'm really surprised that your Region office took any stance besides "Call your Area office" who should have said, in turn, "Call your Council Scout Executive." For good or for evil, (and sometimes for a little of each), this is where the authority for such decisions is properly placed.

[wagionvigil]

This ngoes back aways but after some discussion the fiollowing was determined. In our council we have paid registered MBC and non Paid MBC(they pay no registration fee) those that are non paid cannot use that as membership they MUST pay the annual rehistration fee.