Troop Leaders That Are ANTI-OA

[diamondbackAPL]

ok a dumb question, whats hazing,another thing I just got eligible for OA and i think we're having elections soon

[wagionvigil]

Hazing_ Snipe Hunts,Sending scouts for left handed smoke shifters etc. In college when I went if you pledged a Frat you were hazed, Beaten etc.

Hazing is something that will hurt you or embaress you.

[FrankJ]

From Dictionary.com:
Hazing:
1. To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks.
2. To initiate, as into a college fraternity, by exacting humiliating performances from or playing rough practical jokes upon.

At best it creates unity in a group. It oftens goes to far, and people get hurt. Hazing is not allowed in the Boy Scout program.

[JoAnne J]

First let me say I'm not anti-OA. My brother and nephew are very active in OA in another District in our Council. Our problem is that the Scouter that has been made the advisor in this area was one of our Troops ASM. I say was because our Committee with our Charter Rep. has removed him from our Troop. Due to his ethics. Many of the parents in our Troop feel that with this man's history with our Troop letting their boys participate in OA just isn't a option. We have talked to our DE and SE about all of this while the Scouter was still ASM with our Troop.And at the sametime the District Commissioner. All our complaints fell on deaf ears. Instead now he's DC and in-charge of OA in our area. I'll admit that I don't know how the OA works my experence is only with Troop. As a Mom I wouldn't feel good about letting my 3 sons into a group that this man oversees. Any suggestions on how I can fell ok with letting my boys experience OA?

[wagionvigil]

I dislike 'chapters"and that is what you have in large coucils. The Politics is really bad in this setting.
Wagion was the 6th Lodge started.Dr. Goodman actually was here when it held its first Ordeals etc. That being said many mmons ago wqe had chapters and those chapters actually worked against each other.
Now we have a Lodge of 900 that does not have chapters and we work for the good of our camp and Council.
A neighboring Metro council has Chapters and the Chapter chief in some case have never met the Lodge Chief How Can this be?
We have a Lodge Adv. and two Associate Adv. A Chief, 2 vice Chief one for Program and one for Adminstration, a Secretary and A treasurer. We have many different committes headed by youth appointed by the Chief. Each Chairman and each officer has an adult adv.
Our Lodge is operated by the youth with very little imput from the adult adv.
Our Actities during the year are as Follows.
August Fellowship weekend, Ordeal,Brotherhood and Vigil, Ceremonies as needed
October Service Weekend Ceremonies as needed
February fellowship banquet and fun day. Usually at some high school within our council

April Service Weekend ceremonies as needed.

May Spring Nature Hike for Cub Scouts This is a OA planned and led activity at our council camp

June Service weekend Ceremonies as needed.
We average 250 at a service fellowship weekend and Close to 200 at our banquet.

[scoutaholic]

When I was a young scout, I was a memeber of the OA. Our chapter at the time was very strong, and had many activities in addition to those done on a lodge level. At the time, there were only 2 or 3 chapters in the lodge that were strong, and the other 20+ chapters struggled to keep any program going.

My SM was also the Chapter Advisor, and he had several Assistant Advisors that helped. There were a bunch of us boys who were very active in running the chapter. I held elected chapter leadership positions for 5 or 6 years. Our Chapter won the "Chapter of the Year" trophy, and we were known all over the area for our AOL, Eagle, and other ceremonies. Our dance/ceremony team was often scheduled 3-4 nights per week.

Many years later, I am now SM, and see the OA from a different perspective. I have not attended a lodge event is several years, so can't say for sure, but it appears that the lodge has dwindled, and is no longer the strong program I remember. When I last asked, there was no lodge dance team or ceremony team, and the lodge advisor didn't know of any chapter in the lodge who had a team either. Our chapter has not had a strong working program in the 7 years that I have been SM. I'm not sure the reason, but our chapter struggles to keep any program going. There have been many district events where the chapter isn't there. When they do come to events to help, there are only 2-3 boys. I have held elections in my troop a few times, and after the boys go through their ordeal, they go to chapter meeting and are bored. They are either the only ones there, or there is nothing planned. Those who have been elected from my troop quickly lost interest.

[Lynda J]

Our OA has gone through a very dry period. Advisor left. New advisor didn't do much. NOw there is a new advisor who came up through scouting in our district. He is a member of this OA and is really trying to get things going. They have planned two camping trips for the fall.

One problem is that can't get our SM to set an election. Our OA rep has tried to get elections set 3-4 times and it is always later. We haven't had election this year. The advisor told the rep that if we could do elections this before mid August there is a tapout that t hey can make. We have 4 boys that could go in. It would help rebuild the lodge and give the older boys more todo. But no go. Like mine said. "Once the SM's son got in it isn't important any more. Sad thing is his son doesn't even come. Has been to maybe 2 meetings in the last 2 years. I am scared that we may lost one really good Scout. He was really upset he wasn't tapped out at our last camporee. But we hadn't done elections.

Without boys being active and adults being supportive a lodge will die.
With out enough boys there can be no dance team and without adults making sure boys can get to meetings they can't get there. There have been complaints that our OA meets the same night as Round Table. But it is easier for me. I take three boys to every meeting. I will take as many boys as my car will hold. I will see to it they get to activities. I will help repair gear. What ever it takes to help. I am not OA. And don't really know if I want to be. It is about time that Kevin moves past me being involved in everything he does. But I will be there for support in what ever way I am needed.

[deweylure]

Our Troop had a few OA members ,whoe became inactive after reaching Eagle. The SM sometimes has no clue and has failed to have elections for several years.
Recently all of the ASM's questioned it since we are members. I called the OA representative and we are going to schedule an election. to me it seems some Troops who are in active fall to the wayside.

Take the initiative and ask flat out. Remember this program is for the scouts not the leaders.

Dewey

[wagionvigil]

I have found that many scouts get more from OA then from the Troop. I think this is what many SM are afraid of.I know of a couple young men that were floundering in the troop. But when they became active in the Lodge they made great strides including Eagle Which I donot believe they would have finished if it was not for the Lodge.
Several troops in our council schedule outdoor activities or campouts OA weekends. this puts the Boys between a rock and a hard place. Everyone in our council knows when the OA weekends are as they are in the council calandar that each unit leaders receieves in the fall so it is no accident. It is unfair to the scouts and in the long run will hurt the program. I have heard that one leader especially has told his troop." You want to go fishing and have fun or go to an OA weekend and work all weekend? Not what I think any leader should do especially when we balance work with fun activities on Saturday afternoon and SAturday night after ceremonies.

[scout_momx2]

Both my sons are Life Scouts. Our family has a very negative impression of OA. I understand OA membership is to recognize the camping accomplishments of its members. However, this doesn't seem to be the cast--it's nothing but a popularity contest. The elder boy (whose friends have all quit the troop) has been passed over three times even though he has attended Jambo, Philmont x3, SeaBase, Northern Tier, several out-of-state high adventure trips, numerous summer camps and weekend campouts, and is closing in on the 100-Nite Award. (He was eligible again this year, but withdrew his name from consideration.) He's also earned 35 merit badges to date. On the other hand, it seems that the goofballs are voted in, probably because they're fun to be around. (For example, what better way to douse a campfire than to urinate on it?) Our troop just had its OA election, and my younger son will probably be voted in his first time because the younger scouts like him. However, he feels that his older brother is more deserving of OA membership. He intends to decline if he's elected.

Personally, I feel that any boy who has earned OA eligibility should be voted in.

Our troop hasn't had an active OA group in years. Just recently, our SM, under pressure from the local lodge, has been pushing OA membership.

Perhaps OA membership was once a great honor. In my experience, at least in our area, it's morphed into something else--I've overheard disturbing accounts of what happens at OA events.

[wagionvigil]

Everyone that is eligible usually gets voted in. All you need is a majority of the votes cast. There is no number you are to vote for.

[wagionvigil]

Here are the election rules. If your troop is doing it different then it is wrong. I have never seen an eligible boy not get in since these rules went into effect.

• 50% of the active, registered youth in the unit must be present to conduct the election.
• At least two members and one adult member of the Apanuc or Lodge will conduct the election.
• The election team will explain the following to the unit:
1. The purpose of the Order of the Arrow
2. The basis upon which nominees were selected
3. The election rules
• The unit leader may explain these three points if an Arrowman, otherwise a youth election team member will explain these points.
• THE RULES
• Determine which of the nominees you believe set the best examples of brotherhood, cheerfulness, and service.
• Vote for all of the nominees that you believe will live up to these examples in unselfish service to your unit. It’s okay to vote for all of the nominees.
• Return an empty ballot if you believe that none of the nominees are worthy of this honor.
• If you are a new member in the unit and do not know any of the nominees well enough to vote wisely, you may abstain by not turning in a ballot at all; this will not affect the final result.
• You may vote for yourself.
• Each nominee must obtain at least 50% of the votes to be nominated. In the case of an odd number of ballots such as 15, round up to the next number, in this case the nominee must be listed on 8 ballots to be elected.
• The election is finished if anyone was elected. In the event that no one was elected from the first ballot, the election team will ask the unit to vote just once more.

[scout_momx2]

That doesn't happen in our troop. The SM emphasizes how you should vote for a friend because he's the one you'd count on in an emergency. Of the 6 kids eligible for OA membership, 2 were voted in.

[scout_momx2]

This procedure isn't followed in our troop. I'll bring your list to the SM's attention. Thanks.

[wagionvigil]

This is National OA policy and any variation from them is strictly prohibited.
Where are you located? i might be able to lead you to the right person at your REgion HQ to discuss this with.

[wagionvigil]

It all reality elections are to be supervised by a lodge Election team that comes to the meeting. The troop is really not allowed to hold their own elections.

[wagionvigil]

Here are the Complaint steps for the OA
1. Each Lodge as an Adviser. this is a volunteer that is appointed by the Council Executive with the Approval of the Council Executive Board. I was the adviser for Wagion for 3 years . I went into at least two units and reheld illegal elections.

2. Each Council has a Professional Adviser for the Lodge. this is a Professional Scouter that is appointed by the Counail exec.

3. The Council Executive is considered the "Supreme Chief of the Fire" in the Order of the Arrow. rattle his cage if the election procedure is not being followed.
4. Still having problems .there is a professional in your regional office that is to oversee all the lodges in your Region.

[WeeWillie]

Scout_Momx2

If OA elections are a popularity contest then it sounds like the problem is with your troop not OA. For the last two years I've been driving my son who has been a Chapter Chief & a Chapter Secretary to troop elections. There is both a video and a script that outlines the goals of OA and the election process. Both the video and script specify that an Arrowman's first responsibility is to his troop.

When my son visited troop for elections he found out that several classmates were also Scouts. OA gives older Scouts an opportunity to escape the 11-12 year olds and spend time with peers. My troop is small and there are only 2 Scouts in High School.

I went through my Ordeal day of ardous labor and silence the day Neal Armstrong walked on the Moon. When it was anounced at lunch, those of us who let out a cheer, got a notch on our arrow.

[MDEagle]

Our troop just had its OA election, and my younger son will probably be voted in his first time because the younger scouts like him.

Personally, I feel that any boy who has earned OA eligibility should be voted in.

First post ever, so I hope I get this right. Our Troop recently held elections. My son (a young scout) told me that most of the younger boys (who make up a substantial segment of our Troop) only voted for one of the eligible candidates.

When I asked him why, he said that the boy helped them with advancement work on campouts, encouraged them, and was generally supportive and nice to them. The other boys "treat us younger Scouts like slaves when the SM isn't looking."

Now, I'm know nothing of your sons, and next to nothing of OA, and I'm generally inexperienced with Scouting in general above the Cub level... so take it for what it's worth. It would seem to me that there's a reason that they let the Scouts vote for those they feel deserve the honor, rather than have the adults choose who should be in or simply allow entry based on an adult-devised criteria.

I'm assuming that one of the boys made it through the vote, since they didn't ask the boys to vote again... but I'll be surprised if they all make it.

[jr56]

Generally, the boys in my troop have done a very good job of electing OA candidates. In general, the boys who are not active, or aren't interested in helping out the younger scouts, don't get elected.