SM who has stepped way over "the line"

[hacimsaalk]

in our troop, there is one certain individual, who has some problems with the way things are done, hes "right " about EVERYTHING, he complains about most things,and he doesnt realize that the scout equipment is different than the adults equipment. at our most recent campout (our yearly planning) it was no exception. on friday night, we got to our camp sight. we set up our tents, then we began to set up our troop canopy. one pole was missing, so he started moaning and complaining about that, and how we should be prepared, and how things werent gonna work, ect. well, another one of our SM's made a pole and solved the problem. that night, it rained, and mostly everyone got soaked in their tents. in the morning, he was on everybody about how they needed to be prepared, and how he didnt get wet b/c he was prepared and b/c he set up his tent right, ect. for breakfast, he grabbed the scouts BRAND-NEW CAST-IRON Skillet and began to cook the ADULTS BACON. now, this wouldnt have been a problem if we wouldve brought a back-up, but since we didnt ( we didnt figure our own ASM would take it for breakfast), we were stuck with cooking bacon in a sauice pan over a propane stove. my dad ( the SM) told him that it was the scouts, and that was all that we brought. he said "BE PREPARED". since he had our frying pan, he figured he might as well get our spatula to turn his bacon so, he made me climb into the back of the ASM's truck and dig through our patrol boxes for a spatula. and that was breakfast.

later on in the day, my ASPL was chopping firewood for our fire. we had a chopping circle that was rather large ( just in case). he was doing everything right, i had no problem with it, his dad ( an ASM) had no problem with it. this adult im talking about, came up and started chewing the kids head off, about this that and the other thing. how he wasnt being safe, how he needed to learn how to chop just like him ( the adult), and on and on and on. pretty much just belittleing him

at lunch, instead of ME ( being the SPL) getting things going, this adult decided to take charge FOR ME not only did he step on my toes, he was WAY out of line to begin with.

after lunch, my ASPL once again went to cutting things. this time, he decided to cut down a live tree. IT WAS HIS PROPERTY, AND HIS DAD WAS ALLRIGHT WITH IT AS WELL. he chopped and chopped, and chopped till it fell. it just so happened that it fell towards the canopy. the adult jumped and began hollering at my ASPL again about how he was inconsiderate, and only thinking of himself, and how he had no clue what he was doing, and that he should nvever cut a live tree. once again bellittleing him.

this adult wanted hickory smoked steaks for supper, so, he went, found a dead hickory, brought it BACK INTO CAMP, fired up his CHAIN SAW, and started cutting. there were scouts within 5 foot of him, and he seemed content with that ( even though our chopping circle kept people 10 or 15 foot away).

after supper, and well into the night, we were having our cracker barrel. the adults wanted anything we werent gonna use, packed into the truck for the next morning, since we had to get otu of there early. i was doing some tidying up, and putting things away, and the adult came over and started to rip me a new one-b/c that wasnt my job, and i should delagate it, ect.

the next morning, me and my ASPL got up about 1/2 hr later than everyone else. we sat down by the fire and enjoyed our breakfast. this adult didnt see that as kosher, so he started yeliing at us, and the rest of the group to "NOT SIT DOWN TILL EVERYTHING IS PACKED" mind you-ive been up for less than 5 min. i have no clue what is going on. i finished up, got my shoes on, and began to tear down my tent. i got that done, and packed, i got my gear packed, and then we got the troop gear packed. so, since all that remained was the canopy with a few certain individuals stuff underneath it, we decided it would be allright to sit down. well, once again that wasnt koshere with the adult he started screaming and hollering at us. so, once again we were up and at it tearing the canopy down. the last thing to go into the trucks was this adults chainsaw. he told a scout ( who had been in the troop less than 6 monthes) to go and grab it. he told everyone to back up b/c "it was sharp enough that if it brushed you, it would slice you open." everyone backed up. my ASPL felt he was far enough back ( the kid carrying the saw wouldve had to throw it at my aspl in order to hit him). the adult didnt, he told him to back up again. so he did. after the saw got loaded, the adult said something to the affect of next time listen to me and quit being so stubborn. well, that was the last straw. my ASPL did something that i wont go into detail on. after that, his dad sent him packing home.

last night at the fair ( we were working for our charter organization) this adult told me that all our ASPL needed was his a** kicked. (excuse my language please) those were his exact words. as far as im concerned, thats unexceptable 100%.

any suggestions? at this point, we are looking to remove him, but maby one of you can come up with a better idea?

[Lynda J]

Seems that the SM and CC need to have a good talk with this adult. For one thing he isn't setting a good examply for the boys.

Our troop has seperate patrol boxes for each patrol and for the adults.

We don't mix the equipment.

One question. Did it rain so hard that the tents simply couldn't take it or did the boys simply not set them up correctly?

[Chief J]

You willneed to get your Chartered Organization involved. They have the power to remove an adult volunteer at their discretion or at least listen to all sides and decide on the course of action to be taken.

Sounds like a real mess, Best fo Luck,
Chief J

[Mrw]

Hopefully, the SM and any other adults on the campout were as angry as you obviously are about this man's behavior and will not allow him to come the next time.

In an ideal world, he will be asked not to come back to the troop at all, but that may take a bit longer.

You didn't say - does this guy have a son in the troop?

Being a bit on the outspoken side when I see things that are wrong, I would have had words with him at the time and told him to back off. Being an "old folk" I could do this more easily than you. Did any of the adults on the campout tell him then that he was out of line? Hopefully they would pull him aside and do this quietly, but I would do it openly if he didn't take the hint the first time.

[Billiken]

last night at the fair ( we were working for our charter organization) this adult told me that all our ASPL needed was his a** kicked. (excuse my language please) those were his exact words. as far as im concerned, thats unexceptable 100%.

This instance, by itself, is reason enough to have this person ejected.

[cballman]

heres my take on this one.
first of all who is this man? is he an ASM or just a parent that came along? what gives him the right to say anything to the kids? then the big question if the SM was there or another adult leader then why is this being brought up now? it should have been dealt with ASAP on the campout. period.

second if all the boys were using safe practices for the axe yard and he wasent for his chainsaw use then he should be taught how to properly use a chainsaw when others are around.

third if he is a ASM then is he trained? if not why? maybe this man needs scouting so that he can learn leadership and safe practices.

lastly if he has trouble with the boys leading, and proper safety items then by all means go to the CC and get this person removed. ASAP safety is the first and foremost thing when there is a group around. you dont play by the rules the either leave or learn.

[hacimsaalk]

this man is an ASM whos son ONCE was in scouts. now, hes just along for the ride. an adult was the only other one along for the campout, at the time. early on, my dad ( the SM) and anothe ASM. the adult along was the father of the scout offended, so he was just as mad as i was.

this ASM is a lumber jack, so nobody is gonna tell him how to be safe with his chainsaw.

as far as i know he is trained ( dont quote me though).

i am working with the CC and the SM ( who are about to switch positions).

it mostly was just b/c of the rain. it cam down HARD!!!

this weekend was just about enough. last night though, that was it. tomorrow night, im working with our CC and another ASM, and the adult who was along with us will be there as well. im sure we will have quite the talk

[hops_scout]

Hold a sec...

If you are a Troop Guide, I don't exactly see your purpose really in this situation. If you're SPL, I don't believe you should talk to either the CC or the ASM in question. Shouldn't that be the SM's job? I understand your complaints and I agree something needs to be done, but I don't think that falls under your job description. Talk to the SM and let him know your issues and allow him to take it up with the CC and possibly the committee, etc. Isn't one of the SM's jobs to represent the youth side to the committee?

[evmori]

Tell this guy when recharting time comes up his services are no longer needed.

[Chief J]

Tell this guy when recharting time comes up his services are no longer needed.

Have the Chartered Org Rep tell him now and be done with it. See Chapter 9 of the Commissioner Field Book for Unit Service on how to remove a volunteer.

YIS,
Chief J

[momma_bee]

pssss - way off topic....for Linda.

I didn't camp with Micah, but I was in the same rain. It was that persistant, if it isn't raining, it ought to be weather. It never really stopped misting. Our tents all had puddles. I blame the 'in-and-out kids' for one, mesh windows on another and I don't know what the other adult's problem was, but he was wet too. On tent was put up by boys, the other two were by two different adults.

Heck, I slept in my van the first night and got wet. Of course, sleeping with the door open and the sleeping bag hanging out may have had something to do with it...

Oh, and about the problem. I don't know. I would say training and specific comments to the leader from an adult would be in order. As a scout, I would hope you could have mentioned the problem RIGHT AWAY to any trustworthy adult. I don't think it needs to go thru the SM. Of course, our troop's SM isn't always present, and that may color my opinion.

[Lynda J]

You, the SM, the other adult that was on the outing all need to go and sit down with the Charter Org. rep and talk to them about this guy. No adult who thinks the proper disipline on a Scout it to "kick his a**" needs to be working with Boy Scouts. Especially one that relates that idea to a boy in the troop. Our SM would never allow this type of behaviour.

[cballman]

more questions

how many adults were present for this campout? if the SM was there why was he not stopped from bad behaviour right then and there?

now just because this man is a lumberjack AND a ASM on a scout outing the guide to safe scouting must be followed. first of all i believe that no scouts are to use a chainsaw. to me that means even carrying it to a work site. if there was no chainguard on it then that makes it worse.

this type of behaviour should be stopped right from the start. not 1,2,3 weeks later. since you are now the SPL and he overstepped his limits by directing scouts to do lunch then that is when the SM needs to take over and talk with this man.

I also understand that sometimes we adult leaders need to be retrained or taught how the troop functions on a campout. like lynda we have different boxes for the adults and the patrols. sometimes if the meal is a large one the we must ask to borrow other utenesils whether it be from the boys or the boys ask the adults.

good luck with this problem.

[evmori]

Better yet, call you council office & tell them this individual is no longer part of you unit & have them remove him from your charter. Then contact your COR & tell them what has transpired. Done!

[scoutaholic]

Better yet, call you council office & tell them this individual is no longer part of you unit & have them remove him from your charter. Then contact your COR & tell them what has transpired. Done!

While this MAY solve the immediate problem, it sounds like going about the solution backwards. The SPL should not be the one calling the council office to remove an ASM from the charter (I doubt the council would do it for him without contacting an adult leader first). If a call is made to the council to remove him, it should be the COR doing it. If the COR won't do it, then the CC or SM should.

I think, as suggested in other posts, a meeting with the COR, SM, CC, etc is definately in order. After said meeting, there should be no more responsibily in the matter for the SPL. Let the adults take care of this one. That is their job.

[wagionvigil]

This is not a Youth problem to deal with.The other adults need to step up to the task.

[616kayak]

I agree with letting the adults deal with it. Most likely he sees you as a kid, not as a leader. If you try to talk to him about it, no matter how respectful you are, he will not see it as a sign of disrespect.

If he stays in the troop you do not have to use him as one of your MBCs or, as SPL, request he teaches at a meeting. I have had similar problems with an adult in my troop and that is the route I took.

[evmori]

Better yet, call you council office & tell them this individual is no longer part of you unit & have them remove him from your charter. Then contact your COR & tell them what has transpired. Done!

While this MAY solve the immediate problem, it sounds like going about the solution backwards. The SPL should not be the one calling the council office to remove an ASM from the charter (I doubt the council would do it for him without contacting an adult leader first). If a call is made to the council to remove him, it should be the COR doing it. If the COR won't do it, then the CC or SM should.

I think, as suggested in other posts, a meeting with the COR, SM, CC, etc is definately in order. After said meeting, there should be no more responsibily in the matter for the SPL. Let the adults take care of this one. That is their job.

The SPL doesn't make the call. The SM or CC makes the call. When I was a SM, I did this & it worked very well.

[cballman]

same question

if the SM was on the campout with this man why wasent something said at that time?

[Lynda J]

Moma I figured that had to be it. Having read Michas posts and e-mailed back and forth with him. We have been in the same boat. In 61 the GS troop I was in camped and it rained so hard it washed out gear out of our puptents. We got 13" of rain in 6 hours.
My troop now camped last year and it rained so hard that some of the tents collapsed. The boys named the campsite "River Runs Through it".
Water got up so high it was inside out trailer.

But I always thought if you were camping it was a rule that it rained at some point. Of course right now I would camp for a month if it would only rain here. We are on day 41 of over 100. Haven't seem any rain to amount to anything since early June. I am tired of the heat.
I can always get enough clothes on to be warm. Can't always get enough off to be cooler and legal." Give me winter back.