Eagle At 13?

[gwd-scouter]

Pipestone. Hate to tell you, but you were misinformed about ASPL (Asst. Sr. Patrol Leader) not counting as POR for Star. It surely does count. APL (Asst. Patrol Leader) would not count.

Sure sounds like you've been given an unfair runaround in serving your PORs, but you seem to be OK with it all and even though it's been tough you're sticking to your goal.

Good luck!

[pipestone1991]

^^Woops I meant APL sorry!

[maricopasem]

In my opinion, personality and leadership is more important than skills

You can't be serious. You make it sound like a popularity contest. Who would you suggest determine who has the right "personality?" Are you going to exclude a boy who is more reserved because he's not the charismatic leader you envision? You make it sound like Eagle Scouts should be selected the way schools select homecoming or prom royalty, and that is a ludicrous notion.

Regards,
Someone who earned his Eagle at 12 years and 8 months

[Lynda J]

Good leadership skills many times have little to do with age. I have seen 8 year olds who were better leaders than a 17 year old. And I have seen 11 year olds respected by their troop mates more than they respect the 16 year old. Respect has nothing to do with age or size. It is how a boy handles himself. Does he do his jobs, does he work well with others in his troop. Does he conduct himself in a Scouting manner.
Leadership can be a learned skill but it is also a natural skill in many young people.
So don't reduce the value of Eagle to a 13 year old over that of a 17 year old. Many times I have seek the 17 year old earn Eagle and the troop never sees him again. But the 13-14 year old stay with the troop in most cases I have seen.

[hops_scout]

Wow Lynda, your troop is lucky. Out of the last 6 boys I've seen earn Eagle before 15, only one of them has been active more than a month after getting Eagle. He's currently serving as a JASM at age 17.

[maricopasem]

I'm looking forward to seeing the next generation of skill-less Eagle Scouts: "Sorry, ma'am, but I don't know how to perform CPR. However, allow me to regale you with my sparkling personality."

[616kayak]

personality and leadership sklls are hard to measure and create standards for. That is the reason why the majority of the reqs for eagle are knowledge and skill.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

4 pages on a topic that seems to keep coming up, over and over. Well I was trying to refrain from posting on this one but I give up.

Why is it people that see a 12 - 14 year old that earns Star or Life but doesn't reach his Eagle for another 2 - 4 years as lazy or a procrastinator? Why isn't he looked at as someone that spent that time maturing, growing, developing into an Eagle Scout? Like that boy is at fault for slowing down, or taking his own pace. Like he could 've had it and should've but oops - he let it slip away and now he doesn't rank as much as he would've had he completed it at a younger age. Isn't this what the program is all about? Growing into the young adult that makes his own decisions.
btw - I've seen plenty of boys haul through FYFC and then quit. Some made Star within 18 months. Then they're gone.

What about the boy that could earn Eagle at a younger age but decides it doesn't matter and he waits till he's 17. Meanwhile, he continues in the troop, working with new scouts and older scouts. Enjoying himself and his time in scouting. Then he decides to complete everything before turning 18 and he gets hacked on for earning his Eagle and not sticking around to give back to the program? Like the only ones that give back are the young Eagles? I've seen plenty of 15, 16, 17 year olds go slow because it didn't really matter to them. They didn't feel it was a race. BUT, they did contribute to the troop in a great way for several years before earning the rank.

If only a few young boys earned Eagle, this topic wouldn't be so hot. Everyone would view those young ones as exceptions. But the fact that so many people know of 12 - 13 year old Eagles, seems to show evidence that something isn't right within some troops thoughts or programs. (just my opinion here) It seems that if this program was really setting out to teach, advance and Eagle at such young ages, then the age limit for Eagle would be younger too. I view the 18 year age limit as an open door for boys to spend time in the program with ample time to mature and grow into being a young adult.

Don't get me wrong, I understand about how young a boy can join, and if working very hard, they can earn all the ranks and do all the required badges, projects, service, etc. and Eagle at 12 or 13. I'm just not sold on the idea that somehow this just isn't the norm or the way the program was meant to run. And as for maturity? No way do I see many at that young of an age really possess maturity which isn't spelled out anywhere in BSA policies, literature or requirements, but I believe it's all tied in.

Ok, I feel better now that I've spoken and I'll now retreat to my corner.

[aflmom]

I'm sure everyone is tired of this topic, but wanted to post a slightly different perspective. My son is 13 and is in the preliminary stage of his Eagle project and wants to finish it early fall. It will be December before his 6 months is up in a leadership position at which time he turns 14.

He's looking forward to having his Eagle and feels he will enjoy scouting a lot more once that step is completed. He'll have more time to focus on the other scouts and helping them without feeling he needs to concentrate on his own goals--at least in scouts. Because he goes to college full-time and has completed 21 credits, scouting has presented its own challenges with time management.

This semester he wants to take 18 credits, but reluctantly followed our advice to start with 15 and then pick up the other course if the work load was doable. Like obtaining his Eagle, he sees college as a stepping stone to be able to do what he really enjoys. Near as I can ascertain, that's being in a leadership position and being able to help others.

[maricopasem]

Why is it people that see a 12 - 14 year old that earns Star or Life but doesn't reach his Eagle for another 2 - 4 years as lazy or a procrastinator?

Because in my experience that exactly describes most of the boys.

I oversee 25 boys who are 14-17 and there are only four of them who are really interested in advancing and earning the Eagle rank. Each of them turned 14 within the past six months.

I believe that many of the remaining 21 will become Eagle Scouts, but it will require a good deal of encouraging, persuading, cajoling, and maybe even threatening (by mom and dad, not me) to get them there.

I don't buy the line of reasoning that by advancing quickly through the ranks and then taking some time off a boy is "maturing" into an Eagle Scout. That's like saying that a sprinter who spends a few years taking some leisurely jogs will be faster on the back end when he decides to compete again.

If a Scout is not advancing, what is he doing?

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I like your comparison, although I don't agree that they are the same.

Most I've seen (that I was speaking about) have held position where they spent most of their energy such as SPL or ASPL. Some lacked the Eagle Required badge but kept earning other badges. Like at summercamp, even though I always push for them to take 1 ERB at camp, I've seen some just keep taking other ones, that they wanted to take. Which I also don't agrue with because camp can also be about having fun, taking advantage of opportunities not available at home and experiencing new things. Most have remained very active with the troop and a real asset even though they just didn't work on ERB.

Maybe so many 12 - 14 years olds are advancing because adults in the troop are pushing the FCFY? This can have 2 results. Some young boys that really aren't that motivated are succeeding to reach 1st class too early, just because the program guarantees it. And second, once the scouts earn 1st class, maybe troops aren't holding their hands as much to continue earning the needed badges to earn Star, Life and Eagle? If a troop concentrates on FCFY each year, often the older boys are more on their own to complete badges. Which is the way I think the program is meant to be more like. I don't believe in glorified packs, which is what some troops seem to resemble.

As for boys maturing - yes, I think some boys need to mature. And part of this means they need to be motivated from within. A boy that stalls in advancement but is still very active in the troop shouldn't be thought of as lazy but I see them more as growing from the inside. I also don't like to see boys pushed, persuaded or even threatened from parents (as you say) or adult leaders. Yes, I believe they need to be reminded and it's our roles to try to keep them on track but I will not hold their hands to make sure they become Eagle scouts.

We have a boy right now that will be 18 very soon. It is extremely sad to think he probably won't finish everything for his Eagle. He's been VERY active since he joined from cubs. The last few years, we've all been on him to concentrate on his ERBs. At summercamp he even signed up for them but then dropped the class midweek. He's been a very nice boy in the troop and held many positons, very responsibly except for his own advancement. Don't know why and it puzzles us all. But he probably won't do it. One of the Eagle scouts still in the troop made a comment to some of us adults, that not all boys are meant to be Eagles and maybe this boy is just going to have to learn in life from his own mistake. Bottom line is I'm not even contacting him about where he is now. We've all made it clear and offered our help, but I refuse to hold his hand.

[hops_scout]

Why is it people that see a 12 - 14 year old that earns Star or Life but doesn't reach his Eagle for another 2 - 4 years as lazy or a procrastinator?

If a Scout is not advancing, what is he doing?

HAVING FUN!!! Last I checked there were several Aims; not just Advancement!!

I spent two years at Star rank. Why? Because I was too busy having fun camping, climbing, working National Jamboree, serving as SPL and JASM, etc!

Now, I'm at Life and have less than 6 months to finish. At summer camp, I could have very easily taken 6, 7 merit badges and gotten that much closer to Eagle. Instead, I took two in order for me to get Life, and then spent the rest of the time free so I could help the other boys.

The end-all goal is not to attain Eagle!

[Trailblazer]

I turned in the final paperwork for my Eagle less than a week before my 18th birthday.

I had crossed over into the troop at around 11.

I was never SPL. The highest position I held was Patrol Leader.

I took my time advancing. I was in scouts for the fun. Not the advancing.

I earned 5 badges in less than 2 weeks.

Could I have earned Eagle earlier? Yes, I could have.

But like Hops said, I was having fun. Camping, doing things with the olde and younger scouts....

After I turned the paper work in, I became ASM.

Couple years later, I moved out of town. (20 minutes away by car) and worked crap hours every week. I still made it to most meetings and most camp outs.

And just this past March, after being a ASM for 9 -1/2 years, I became the Scoutmaster.

I have 3 older scouts in my troop. One, who, after he turned 16, got his liscense, got a job, has shown up maybe 5 times for a scout function. He say he wants Eagle, he needs 3 badges and a project. I don't think he'll do it.

The 2 othe rolder scouts, both turned 16 earlier this year. Both now have their liscense, and both think more of girls than the troop.

one, is life, has 23 badges, but needs 5-6 more Eagle required ones.

theother, will be having his Board of Review for Star in a few weeks. Both, I think can make it to Eagle.

When I made Eagle, my troop was proud of me. I didn't get my badges until March the following year (5 months after I was approved). I never did wear my official Eagle badge on my shirt, or the ribbon.

But I wear the Eagle knot proudly on my uniform, and scouts and parents from the troop ask me, what that is for, and I explain to them it's for Eagle, and some of them are in awe.

I think, the age that a scout earns Eagle, shouldn't matter, whether it's 13 or 17.999... as long as the scout is the one that earned it.... not his mommy or daddy.


Just my opinion.

[wagionvigil]

Remember Trailblazer you can wear your Medal at Eagle COH.

[Mrw]

We had a Star scout age out of the troop last year after being very active in the troop since he had crossed over. He was a great leader and the other boys all really looked up to him. He was there for fun and really didn't care to advance. I talked to him about it periodically so he would know his options if he changed his mind, so it wouldn't be too late.

We have a boy now who has just finished his project and last two ER badges. He will be 18 in a couple months. He spent the last 3-4 summers working at the scout camp, went to the national jamboree, philmont, etc. Good leader and nice guy, but is just squeaking by with the bare minimum of merit badges and actual requirement dates.

Some of the guys decide late to finish and some don't.

On the other hand one of my sons earned his Star rank in 16 months and really did think about finishing Eagle before he started 8th grade. He decided it would be all work and no fun to do it that way, and finished as he was ready for 10th grade. And his buddy all of the sudden got really motivated when he was left behind!

Making sure they have the opportunities and know if they are reaching a drop-dead date is really about all we can do for some kids. And the maturity aspect is the BOY deciding what to do with that information. My experience says a lot of the kids who are on their parents' schedule for advancement reach about 13-14 and rebel and they finish their Eagle later, if at all, than the ones who started out wanting it for themselves.

[Trailblazer]

Remember Trailblazer you can wear your Medal at Eagle COH.

Yep. I remember that.

I haven't worn it to any just, haven't thought o it.. But now that I'm the SM, when/if any of my scouts make Eagle, I will wear it..

My little way of honoring them.

[Scouting179]

Again, whether one likes it or not, it is possible and has indeed happened that Scouts can make Eagle as young as 12.5. Scouts make it when they're ready for it and the time is right for them. That's all there is to it.

[pipestone1991]

I think, the age that a scout earns Eagle, shouldn't matter, whether it's 13 or 17.999... as long as the scout is the one that earned it.... not his mommy or daddy.

.

Exactly!

[Lynda J]

179 I agree. A boy will make Eagle when he is ready. Be it 12.5, 15, or 17.99999. What bothers me is when adults deminish the work that goes into earning Eagle for a boy that is 13 or 14 over that of a boy that is almost 18.

Kevin turned 13 in April. At that point he was only Eagle required 2 badges and his project away from Eagle. He is now one badge and his project away. He currently has over 30 badges and is working on more. He loves working on badges and looks at how he can work badges into his school work.

As far as a 13 year old not having leadership skills or maturity. Some don't some do. There is a young lady in our area that at 9 decided she wanted to raise money for MDA. She decided to start a Block Party.
The first year she raised almost $1000. Last year it was over $3000. She is hoping this year will be $5000.

[mommatoodle]

my son made it to life scout in less than two years. he has 1 1/2 erb to go. he is only starting 8th grade and says he doesn't want to become eagle until the end of 8th grade or the beginning of 9th. his reasoning...."i don't have enough leadership experience, i want to spend the next year hopefully as a patrol leader as well as continue as a den chief. i want to work on improving my skills, have some fun and know that when i get my eagle i will be an Eagle, not just have the rank"...he spent the summer volunteering at cub resident camp in order to get leadership experience...is he lazy? no, he has an inner drive and will make a great eagle...and oh, he has 35 merit badges already...