SM who has stepped way over "the line"

[momma_bee]

If Texas wasn't so far from PA, I'd send our troop. It ALWAYS rains where we are.

Micah - we were in camp for both 'big floods.'
~~~~~

I will admit, I have been pulled aside and chided for treating my son as my son and not a Scout. KWIM? I am glad that it was nipped in the bud before I got out of hand.

Did I miss the answer to the training question? Has this person had any training and what do they know about the program?

This worries me, only because it is close to home. I can give the names of WHO to call. My boys can be in camp next to this troop. What if BigBee was adopted by your troop this summer and this adult was dealing with him? Brings out my inner MommaBear let me tell you.

[hacimsaalk]

same question

if the SM was on the campout with this man why wasent something said at that time?

my dad ( the SM) was there on friday night and into saturday morning. he had prior engangements that needed to be tended to. so, he left before theis all went down.

i realize this isnt a "youth" problem. i have been talking with our CC and SM ( my dad. especially him, we have talked for hours, literally, on this subject.) who are about to switch positions, come sept. 1st.

originally there were 4 adults, after saturday morning, there were 2. this adult in question, and another adult.

lyda-if you want some rain, just let me know. up here, if it aint rainin' it aint campin'.

momma bee-sounds like you had some fun i believe this adult was trained, but please dont quote me. i get where you are coming from.

tomorrow we have our annual family picnic. UNFORTUNATELY, we had the picnic scheduled at this adults house before this all happened. so, by the time it happened, it was too late to change things:( so, ths where im going tomorrow.

hopefully by the next committee meeting hes "taken care of"

[Scouting179]

I wouldn't wait til recharter time, I'd take this right up to the SM, Committee, and COR in that order and deal with it now. His behavior and attitude are unacceptable.

How the SM, CC, and COR deal with it....there are a few options, boot him now, have a stern talk with him and give him one more chance, ....

[Lynda J]

It actually RAINED here. We also got a break from out 100+ temps.

It has been so hot the past several weeks that I have been closing my shop at 3:00. No point in making all of us sick from heat. When the inside of the building is over 100 it isn't worth it. We go home and get in the AC.

[616kayak]

You can take some of our rain. It rains all summer here and now we have a tropical storm scheduled for later today.

[hacimsaalk]

according to our SM and CC, he will be allowed to stay. he is being given "a second chance". the stipulation is that he is not to be left "the adult in charge" on any of the campouts, and his role as the adult leader of the High Adventure Patrol has come to an end ( which was about to happen any how)

lynda J- glad to hear that you finally got some rain. its been raining here since sunday morning so if you want any more, let me know

[Chief J]

Best of luck with the arrangement. Hopefully this adult will be humbled by this experience.

Chief J

[hacimsaalk]

an update: I had a soccer game last night. afterwards, my mom told me that the adult we have been discussing about had a stroke . i dont really like him all that much, BUT, i dont wish that kind of thing on anyone. ESPECIALLY since his wife has been sick for the past 7 or 8 years and he has been her support, go-to, and everything else for her. on top of that, her mom is doing extremly bad ( its not looking too good).

So, Please Pray for his family ( his wife especially) and him too.

Thanks

Micah

[Lynda J]

Micah I am so sorry about the leader from your troop. Know that all of you are in my prayers.

No you never wanted anything to happen to him. None of us would have.

[scout_momx2]

I'm sorry to read that the individual involved had a stroke. It sounds as if he has some anger management issues....

It might be a good idea to have your unit commissioner and troop committee members create a behavior expectations book. Upon approval, it could be posted to your troop's web site or distributed to all troop members, scouts and adults alike.

If anything like this happens again, I'd suggest that you involve your unit commissioner. That person is trained to deal with difficult situations. And sometimes it's helpful for an "outside" person to approach the troublemaker. It's entirely possible that this ASM had issues with the other adult(s) on the campout. An outsider doesn't have a horse in the race and the troubled individual is less likely to strike at a stranger. Best of luck.

[jr56]

The SPL should definately talk to the Scoutmaster. It is up to the adults (SM, CC, COR, etc to take the appropriate action. This individual has to go.

[outfoxed86]

A couple of things
Yhe committe Chairman can remove anyone from a unit. you do not need the Charter rep to do that.
Why did this person alloud to use a chain saw anywhere near scouts on a camping trip.Thats a big NO No
This problem needs to be handled by the SM and CC.

[mhjacobson]

Actually it is the COR who should do the removal. The Chartered Organization owns the charter. The way it should work is that the Troop committee should make the recommendation and the COR should make the final decision and notify the council.

Have been involved in some problems with one of the units in my district and council made it very clear that the COR is the magic person. Remember the heirarchy:

1. Organization executive appoints the COR
2. COR appoints the CC
3. CC does a search for SM. Recommendation for SM is approved by the COR
4. All adult leaders are approved by the CC & COR (see adult leadership applicaton) and accepted by the council.

[deweylure]

My personal opinion is I wish the BSA would monitor Scoutmasters and other adults more closely. They should be set upo where the BSA owns the charter.
I have a SM in our troop in my eyes should be booted out and council as well as the COR does nothing. Yes I understand the power flow chart.

I am thinking of leaving the BSA,I do not want to but my blood pressure can only go so high. My youth time as a member of BSA was a great delight .My adult experience is very poor. I seem to be spinning my wheels at this time I want to help the scouts yet the SM makes it hard to do.


Dewey

[wagionvigil]

I agree with you. If you have read my post over the years you will see I am for getting rid of Troop leadership that does not follow the rules. I do feel that they should be given 1 chance to ship up(unless they have violated a G2SS rule then it is immediate) and then they are gone. I have seen troop leaders sitting around a camp fire putting down the brews. there comment is "its not a scout camp" But I always say "you are on a scout outing."
BSA is too afraid of loosing leaders good or bad and the boys with them. These bad leaders are the same ones that are anti OA and anti Venturing.

Until parents of the kids confront the CC or a SE then it will stay the way it is.

[Lynda J]

I wish they would require SM's to renew training like they require YPT, SS and SAF. Maybe if the training had to be renewed after awhile the leaders that thing they can set their own rules will get it through their heads.

[wagionvigil]

I really do not not think training is the answer as most are trained and many are WB trained the problem is they think they are Gods and can do what they want and no one will touch them. "What they gonna do fire me?:
These same leaders would be the first ones in line to fire a teacher that did not obey the rules!
How many are going to balk when Tour permits are required for even a local camporee? Or that all leaders MUST have advanced First Aid?

[ASM-142]

For leaders that do not follow the BSA rules they should be removed. Even if this means that a troop will have to merge with another troop because they do not have someone who wants to be a leader and follow the rules.

[cballman]

what I have seen is that most leaders who was in scouts and or are Eagle scouts pretty much will try to run things the way he was taught a few or many years ago. now somethings are not bad but others are just plain off the wall now. I was a scout when the skill awards were used in the mid 70s. the scout skillswere a bit more relaxed now then they are now in my opinion. but I am glad that they finally went back to the skills. we need to train leaders who have went through scouts as a youth because the methods of teaching have changed drasticlley over the years. I am glad I went through training and I learned a lot to help me in my career as a ASM. also from what I see is that most troops are glad to have someone just step up and be a leader. as long as they become a leader then who cares about training. just my observation.

[WVBeaver05]

I agree with you. If you have read my post over the years you will see I am for getting rid of Troop leadership that does not follow the rules. I do feel that they should be given 1 chance to ship up(unless they have violated a G2SS rule then it is immediate) and then they are gone.

I agree in principle, but I would give more than one chance and institute counseling, to help improve performance.

I have seen troop leaders sitting around a camp fire putting down the brews. there comment is "its not a scout camp" But I always say "you are on a scout outing."

SAD!

BSA is too afraid of loosing leaders good or bad and the boys with them. These bad leaders are the same ones that are anti OA and anti Venturing.

Until parents of the kids confront the CC or a SE then it will stay the way it is.

I agree that BSA is reluctant to take a chance on losing leaders. But, I'm not sure what it will take to change that nationally. Even locally, seems like CC, COR, DE, or SE may or may not follow through.

I wish I knew a solution that I could propose.

YiS