Chartered Org. & Liabiliy Insr. (Split Post)

[ThunderingWind]

Be careful when talking about this around the Chartering Organization. There are some that state that ALL TRAVEL to include to and from Scout meetings is Scout related and therefore the Youth Proection rules apply.

This is a change coming down to mostly churches in order to keep their insurance coverage valid. I know a church I used to attend dropped Scouting becuase the insurance company required they institure the change, pay 5x the premium or drop Scouting. They choose to drop Scouting because of the $$$.

[TCC7]

The conference for the church I am a member has instituted the "Safe Sanctuaries" program and all churches in the conference have to be compliant by the end of the year. This is for any person in any program at the church who has contact with kids under age 18.

[TCC7]

Ed,

Do you remember the name of the Insurance Company? We need to let them know that Scouting has been at the forefront of protecting youth.

I know a church I used to attend dropped Scouting becuase the insurance company required they institure the change, pay 5x the premium or drop Scouting. They choose to drop Scouting because of the $$$.

[Lynda J]

Most insurance companies could give a rats rump is scouting has been in the forfront of Youth Protection. So many people are so ready to sue over everything that they are getting to the point that they simply don't want to insure groups that work with kids.

There was a deal in our local paper about a woman that sued because she didn't like her hair cut. Sued for $10,000. Thankfully the jury sided with the shop owner. Seems the woman brought in a picture of a hair cut she wanted and in the pictures the cut she got sure looked like the pictures.
Problem was the cut made her face look as round as a pumpkin and simply looked like c**p.

Had a doctor customer several years ago whose malpractice insurance went up 400%from one year to the next. He was a GP did no surgery no ER work and anything like that. Simply treated colds, well care and the such. It basically shut his practice down. Especially with the way the HMO and PPO's pay now.

It is sad that some churches and groups are dropping scouting because of fears of legal actions against them. But welcome to the lawsuite fed world.

[Knot Blackhawk]

edbloom,
Can you provide more facts?
What Insurance company was involved? In what State was the church located (State law often governs insurance matters)? What denomination was the church?
A 500% increase in premium sounds very odd indeed. As does an insurance carrier getting that invilved with scout yuth protction rules. Is it possible that a claim against the insured church had been made, or perhaps there was another reason for either the increase or for dropping Scouts? This type of change doesn't normally occur in a vacuum. Also, we know there are activists with an anti-scout agenda. Something does not sound right. Additional facts would be helpful.

[commish3]

You could say that scouting agrees with the church's insurance company. At least the insurance carriers for the BSA accident protection agrees. The coverage is called doorstep to doorstep. A scout's accident protection is in force from the time they leave their front door until they return to it.

Youth Protection should ALWAYS be in effect. Whether the BSA is liable at the time depends on many factors. But if it were a unit where I served... a scout would NEVER be on a one to one basis with an adult other than his parent or legal guardian form the time he entered my protection until the time he arrived back home.

I have no control over how he arrives to me usually. If I did however the rules of YP would again be enforced.

[Billiken]

Ed,

Do you remember the name of the Insurance Company? We need to let them know that Scouting has been at the forefront of protecting youth.

Also, if my company and/or I do business with the insurance company in question we'll be sure let them know this is the reason why we're firing them as the carrier on whatever policies we have with them.

[commish3]

Wouldn't it just be simpler to say that the coverage wasn't required since there was already a policy in force for the scouts?

If they were aware that there was alread a limitless accident policy existing then they could exclude the coverage of the scout unit from theirs.

[ThunderingWind]

It was in Indiana and it was an "independant" Community Church. I do not know the name of the company other than it was one of the Big 5 that insure churches.

The United Methodist Church in that same area now requires background checks of all youth leaders and the adults must pay for them.

I just know it is an issue. The mention above about not needing coverage because the BSA already has one does not cut it any more in this sue-happy nation. Each organization must take extraordinary steps to proected itself now.

[Lynda J]

Our CO has been doing background checks of adults for years. When I first registered as an adult 7 years ago they did one on me. Two years later when I took the CC position I was working with registration with the COR and he looked at my paper work and said he really didn't need to do one on me since I have one done every 4 years through the AG's office of our State. I told him I would prefer they do one because I didn't want to at some future date have anyone question why I didn't have a check in the file. They do one every two years of currently registered adults and of any new adult.

[DadScout]

Our CO is one of the organizations that's part of our Church. The local diocese here (covers two counties) required that all adults in any contact with youth, regardless of position, get a backround check. It was done enmasse and so long as you got the paperwork in by a set date they covered the cost on a bulk contract. After that you needed to pay. This applied to Scouting, the parochial schools, CYO, anything and everything. Even if a parent was a listed as a driver to a camping trip they needed the check. The funny thing was each group needed to submit the forms. I filled out the same form 3 times, but it made everyone happy.

Regarding the insurance, we've not been warned about any issues. But I can see where we have litigants suing "everyone" that a CO would have to worry.

[mhjacobson]

This seems to be a lot of BULL. The ACLU will not bring legal action against a church or private organization.

Yep, insurance continues to increase, and some organizations have found that their premiums will increase whenever they sponsor ANY youth group, including their own. However, the BSA is able to issue a certificate of insurance to the COR, to show that the unit is covered up to the maximum on the insuracne policy. IN most cases, this will either decrease the amount of the premium change, or even wipe it out if the change is due to the sponsorship of the unit.