Scoutmasters poor performance

Administering the troop, solving problems, building on success, and using key program elements like the Patrol Method.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Scoutmasters poor performance

Postby deweylure » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:31 am

I am throwing this out for some feedback.

Recently I learned the SM lied to the rest of us in RE to a boy taking a vacation due to behavior problems of the medical kind. The SM told us it was the scouts parents idea. I learned it was the SM idea and he actually told the paretns not to bring the boy back.

The SM iis untrained after 6 years and does not go on trips or service projects. Currently he blames his lackluster performance on us loosing the CC.
I basically asked him to decide if he is going to be the SM or not. His son is out of the program and he will not resign.

With every foul up the other ASM's must clean up the mess. I am one of them and its getting hard to deal with. Pretty much all the ASm's agree.

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council

Postby ASM-142 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:13 pm

It is time for the committee to take action. This can include mandating training for the SM or replacing him.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
ASM-142
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Monmouth Council, New Jersey

Postby BuffaloWill » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:17 pm

Involve your Unit Commissioner and your Chartered Organization Representative.

It is the responsibility of the Chartered Organization to provide a Scoutmaster that will present the program as defined by the BSA. If your Scoutmaster doesn't want to do this, the Chartered Organization can select someone else to do it.
BuffaloWill
Tenderfoot
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Baden Powell Council

Postby evmori » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:31 pm

Well, since it's nearing recharter time, find someone who is will to take on the SM job & don't recharter this guy. Done!
Ed Mori
1 Peter 4:10
evmori
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Greater Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA

Postby jr56 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:33 pm

You have been given several good suggestions. The key people who can help you are the Committee Cahirman, Chartering Organization Rep., Unit Commisioner. Like Ed said, if everybody is in agreement, simply refuse to recharter this individual at recharter time.
jr56
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Glacier's Edge Council, WI

Postby Chief J » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:04 pm

The above advice is sound. The Commissioner Fieldbook contains a chapter on removing volunteers. The key players will be the Chartered Organization Representative, and the Unit Commissioner and Committee Chair.

If the SM is not performing and has been counseled prior to this, he should be removed.

Find a replacement and have them fill out an application for Scoutmaster, and remove this individual from your organization.

Chief J
Chief J
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:01 am
Location: Greater Pittsburgh Council

Postby Scouting179 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:03 am

The committtee and COR can hire and fire the SM.
Eagle Scout, 22 Jan 1974
ISCA 5537L, Wood Badge SR 571
Chowanoc District Advancement Chairman
Tidewater Council, VA
http://members.cox.net/scouting179
Scouting179
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Tidewater Council, Virginia Beach, VA

Postby deweylure » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:26 pm

We have no commitee chair at the present. She resigned over another issue. the committee is made up of the SM,ASM (4),a treasurer,adult quartermaster, and a recruitment chair. The previous cc was doing advancement ,trip planning,and treasurer.as well as going camping anddoing other jobs.

It was suggested I become the committee chair but I will not become the cc unless the SM shapes up or ships out. In the past he shoved off the work to the cc.

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council

Postby BuffaloWill » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:34 pm

The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters aren't supposed to be on the Troop Committee.

I suggest involving your Unit Commissioner and the head of your Chartered Organization to help resolve the issue. Remember, you and your son/s can always choose another troop if they want to.
BuffaloWill
Tenderfoot
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Baden Powell Council

Postby ASM-142 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:41 pm

deweylure wrote:We have no commitee chair at the present. She resigned over another issue. the committee is made up of the SM,ASM (4),a treasurer,adult quartermaster, and a recruitment chair. The previous cc was doing advancement ,trip planning,and treasurer.as well as going camping anddoing other jobs.

It was suggested I become the committee chair but I will not become the cc unless the SM shapes up or ships out. In the past he shoved off the work to the cc.

Dewey


Dewey - I would suggest that the memebrs of your committee attend training along with read through the committee handbook. It looks like the previous CC did not delagate enough to the members of the committee. It also looks like the adult leaders overall do not know the role of the SM and ASM
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
ASM-142
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Monmouth Council, New Jersey

Postby FrankJ » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Is there anyone willing to step up as SM if the current one steps down? Perhaps that could be arranged so that both the CC & SM gets changed at the same time.

As CC you would have a lot to say about who would be SM. Ultimately the head Charter Org (not necessarily the COR) has the final decision on leadership issues. Where is he this process?
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Postby scoutaholic » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:40 pm

BuffaloWill wrote:The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters aren't supposed to be on the Troop Committee....


The SM should be attending committee meetings as a non-voting member. This is how the SM and the committee work together. The SM can participate in discussion, give his input, but can't vote when the decisions are made by the committee. This is similar to his role in PLC. He is there, gives input and advice, and supports the boy leaders' decisions. The SM attends both Committee meetings and PLC. In neither meeting is he in charge or making decisions. In both cases he is there mostly for input.
ASMs can attend committee meetings and PLC under the same guidelines. They can be there as part of the discussion, but don't make the decisions.
Eagle Scout 1987
OA Vigil Honor 1986
Fox - WE7-590-05-2
Currently - Troop/Team/Crew Advancement Chair & Dist Webmaster
Previously - SM, MC, CM, ACM, ADL, ASM, COR, Dist Camp Chair, PL, SPL, Scribe, Songleader, JASM, OA Chapter Officer, ...
scoutaholic
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 am
Location: Great Salt Lake Council - Utah

Postby deweylure » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:09 pm

This is the problem with the SM ,he does not follow policy. He had his hand picked people. Because the troop is small and parents do not step up we have these problems.
The other ASM and myself are well aware of who should and should not be involved in the committee..We have tried doing other things to change troop operations and the SM basically stacked it against us.
I will step up as SM but this guy will not step down and he is personal friends with COR. Since there really is not a committee firing him as CC is going to be a hard battle. I do not think the chartering organization will get involved.

Moving with my son is not an option,he is a star scout with enough badges for life. He needs 5 required for Eagle. currently he is serving as troop QM.

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council

Postby BuffaloWill » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:16 pm

If your chartered organization and the parents don't want to get involved, there's not much you can do. You and the other ASMs could find another organization to sponsor you and make a new troop.
BuffaloWill
Tenderfoot
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Baden Powell Council

Postby ASM-142 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:38 pm

The way I see things is that the current SM does not follow BSA policy. The chartered organization and the committee will not do anything about this because of friendships with the SM.

What you need to do is to get the Unit Commissor involved. If this goes no where then get a scouting professional involved.

What you have is not a BSA troop but a loosly formed group that does BSA type of stuff.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
ASM-142
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Monmouth Council, New Jersey

Help wanted?

Postby riverwalk » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:13 pm

Unfortunately many committees (personal observation) don't realize a CC is required to keep their charter. Also, though Unit leaders are expected to be in attendance though not committee members, be sure they never try to let an individual serve both as CC and the Unit leader. This isn't allowed. Others can wear multiple hats, as most of us do, haha.
riverwalk
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:45 pm
Location: Circle Ten Council, North Central Texas

Postby FrankJ » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:49 pm

The online recharter will not allow dual registers (SM, ASM & committee positions) so different names are the blanks even if they do not show up.

This is a difficult situation. Keep the boys best interest in mind. They are watching & learning by example.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Postby gwd-scouter » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:13 pm

I just love it when folks suggest you look to your UC to get involved. Perhaps ours is in the minority, but we have no UC for our Troop - never have. Other folks will suggest talking with your COR - ours could care less about what goes on in our troop. Chartered Organization - ditto non involvement. Committee Chair - we've had 3 in the past year and a half.
Sure, the chartered organization signs a contract each year saying they will provide and approve leadership for the troop. How many actually do that? Hopefully, my experience (14 years - 2 cub packs and 1 troop) is the only one in that the CO is not involved AT ALL in providing leadership.

Sounds like doom and gloom doesn't it? Well, for several years, our troop was very much in the same position as yours. Very close and cliquish adult leaders as SM, ASMs and Committee. Cancelled meetings because of other obligations. Cancelled outings for similar reasons. Of course, all their boys were advacing, almost in lock-step. Amazing how that happed since the troop took no more than 5 campouts a year including a week of summer camp. Add to that no recruitment and eventually everyone just got tired.

The result, a completely adult run troop and, by the time I was tapped to SM, only a handful of boys - two under 1st class, the rest at Life and biding their time.

From what you've posted, even as CC it seems you really wouldn't have any way to improve your situation if you are fighting the battle on your own without backup from the chartered organization, rep., or unit commish. And, just from personal experience, be prepared to back up with action any complaints you may bring to the SM. If he steps down, you may just have to be prepared to take his place.

That's how I became SM! :roll:

Good luck to you and your son.
gwd-scouter
Star
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:57 am
Location: Blue Ridge Council, South Carolina

Postby Scouting179 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:37 am

I'd get the disrict types and unit commissioners involved.
Eagle Scout, 22 Jan 1974
ISCA 5537L, Wood Badge SR 571
Chowanoc District Advancement Chairman
Tidewater Council, VA
http://members.cox.net/scouting179
Scouting179
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Tidewater Council, Virginia Beach, VA

Postby deweylure » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:25 am

Gwd took the words right out of my mouth. I do not want the troop to get any smaller and possibly die. If the Sm resigns I will jump in.

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council


Return to Troop Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests