PaintBall

[FrankJ]

Using this logic you would tell at Scout that while in scouts do not point a gun at anyone but once you leave the meeting it is OK. This is wrong. Teaching in scouts should follow the G2SS.

While I agree completely only pointing a gun at something you intend to shoot is an universal safety rule: G2SS only applies to scouting. Some is useful in other situations some isn't.

Some examples of what is allowed in life outside of scouting:

I occasionally use lighter fluid to start charcoal fires: not allowed in G2SS.

I let my son invite people over without only one adult in the house: not allowed in G2SS.

I go hunting occasionally: not allowed in G2SS.

I follow G2SS in my scouting life because it is the rule for scouting. In other areas I follow my own judgment.

[FrankJ]

Using this logic you would tell at Scout that while in scouts do not point a gun at anyone but once you leave the meeting it is OK. This is wrong. Teaching in scouts should follow the G2SS.

While I agree completely only pointing a gun at something you intend to shoot is an universal safety rule: G2SS only applies to scouting. Some is useful in other situations some isn't.

Some examples of what is allowed in life outside of scouting:

I occasionally use lighter fluid to start charcoal fires: not allowed in G2SS.

I let my son invite people over without only one adult in the house: not allowed in G2SS.

I go hunting occasionally: not allowed in G2SS.

I follow G2SS in my scouting life because it is the rule for scouting. In other areas I follow my own judgment.

[ASM-142]

What you do in your life outside of scouting is your own business and as long as you were not involved in something against the scout law it would have no impact on what you do in scouting. However, while a scout it is our responsibility to teach in accordance with the G2SS.

If at a scout meeting if a leader states that the G2SS prohibits paintball.

that is OK.

If this same leader expands on this and states that paintball is safe to play and if you do it as a non-scout then G2SS does not matter.

This is a problem.

[JazerNorth]

If at a scout meeting if a leader states that the G2SS prohibits paintball.

that is OK.

If this same leader expands on this and states that paintball is safe to play and if you do it as a non-scout then G2SS does not matter.

This is a problem.

Why? Explain your reasoning here? I have many examples that would say this doesn't make sense, so explain what you mean.

[evmori]

What you do in your life outside of scouting is your own business and as long as you were not involved in something against the scout law it would have no impact on what you do in scouting. However, while a scout it is our responsibility to teach in accordance with the G2SS.

If at a scout meeting if a leader states that the G2SS prohibits paintball.

that is OK.

If this same leader expands on this and states that paintball is safe to play and if you do it as a non-scout then G2SS does not matter.

This is a problem.

That makes no sense! Everyone is entitled to express their opinion! This isn't the USSR!

[ASM-142]

As a scout leader you are to follow the G2SS in scout activities. To tell a scout that is is OK to do something against the G2SS is going against the G2SS itself.

Example: I am a scout leader at a troop event. I would not tell a sccout it is OK to play paintball on his own time.

Example: I am a scout leader but I am at a neighbor BBQ which has no affliation with scouting. A neighbor who is happens to be a scout asks me about paintball. I will tell him that it is not allowed as a scouting event and otherwise he should check with his parents.

[ASM-142]

That makes no sense! Everyone is entitled to express their opinion! This isn't the USSR!

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, as a scout leader your are obligated to follow scouting rules. If you do not you do not belong as a scout leader.

[evmori]

That makes no sense! Everyone is entitled to express their opinion! This isn't the USSR!

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, as a scout leader your are obligated to follow scouting rules. If you do not you do not belong as a scout leader.

Telling a Scout paintball is not OK as a Scouting activity but OK out of Scouting is NOT in violation of anything in the G2SS or any other BSA rule or guideline! That's not my opinion! That's a fact!

[JazerNorth]

As a scout leader you are to follow the G2SS in scout activities. To tell a scout that is is OK to do something against the G2SS is going against the G2SS itself.

Example: I am a scout leader at a troop event. I would not tell a sccout it is OK to play paintball on his own time.

Example: I am a scout leader but I am at a neighbor BBQ which has no affliation with scouting. A neighbor who is happens to be a scout asks me about paintball. I will tell him that it is not allowed as a scouting event and otherwise he should check with his parents.

The above is not being consistent, which is very important. Having one statement while in scouts and another outside of scouts can be very confusing. In both scenarios, I would tell him that it is not an approved scouting event and that if he wants to play he can do so with his parents.

PS -> Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we should not be a scout leader. I could (was not) have been offended with that. If we were face to face I would have asked exactly what you meant.

[hacimsaalk]

include that a any type of gun should not be pointed at a person - and that includes a paint ball gun.

just b/c the G2SS says that pointing Paintball guns at another person is not an approved activity, doesn't make it true for activities outsied of scouting. i feel it would be wrong to teach that it is wrong, in fact, i wouldn't even think about teaching that to scouts. they are independant people, just like me & you, let them decide.

just my $.02

Using this logic you would tell at Scout that while in scouts do not point a gun at anyone but once you leave the meeting it is OK. This is wrong. Teaching in scouts should follow the G2SS.

i think u took what i am saying wrong. what i meant is that i wouldnt even bring up the topic of pointg paintball guns, paintball, etc. during a discussion about SHOOTING sports. i don't think that it is appropriate or needed during such a disscussion.

[hacimsaalk]

That makes no sense! Everyone is entitled to express their opinion! This isn't the USSR!

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, as a scout leader your are obligated to follow scouting rules. If you do not you do not belong as a scout leader.

Telling a Scout paintball is not OK as a Scouting activity but OK out of Scouting is NOT in violation of anything in the G2SS or any other BSA rule or guideline! That's not my opinion! That's a fact!

thats 100% true. you are obligated as a scout leader to follow the rules. telling a scout that inside scouts, paintball is an unapproved activity, but outside of scouts, it is ok, is the thing to do. In fact, you are being more of a scout leader by explaining to him that he is allowed to play, just not with the scouts (and you're following the guidelines to a "T")

i think saying that saying a leader doesnt belong as a leader just b/c he doesnt follow your interpretation of the rules of scouting ( which you are entilted to) is going a little far.

[ASM-142]

Telling a Scout paintball is not OK as a Scouting activity but OK out of Scouting is NOT in violation of anything in the G2SS or any other BSA rule or guideline! That's not my opinion! That's a fact!

I agree if you are outside of scoutingyou can tell a scout that paintball is OK. However, when you are in a scouting function you should only state that paintball is not an approved activity. You should not volunteer any other information. If the scout presses you on this then you can refer him to his parents.

[ASM-142]

As a scout leader you are to follow the G2SS in scout activities. To tell a scout that is is OK to do something against the G2SS is going against the G2SS itself.

Example: I am a scout leader at a troop event. I would not tell a sccout it is OK to play paintball on his own time.

Example: I am a scout leader but I am at a neighbor BBQ which has no affliation with scouting. A neighbor who is happens to be a scout asks me about paintball. I will tell him that it is not allowed as a scouting event and otherwise he should check with his parents.

The above is not being consistent, which is very important. Having one statement while in scouts and another outside of scouts can be very confusing. In both scenarios, I would tell him that it is not an approved scouting event and that if he wants to play he can do so with his parents.

PS -> Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we should not be a scout leader. I could (was not) have been offended with that. If we were face to face I would have asked exactly what you meant.

I agree that we do not have to agree. I did not mean anything personally. All I was stating is that if a leader does not follow the G2SS or other scout rules then he/she should not be a leader. Can some things in the G2SS and scout rules be open to interpretation yes. However, paintball is strictly forbidden.

As far as being consistent these are two different examples - one at a scouting event where I am there as a scout leader and the second where I am at a neighbor BBQ as a neighbor.

[JazerNorth]

Yes, playing paint ball is forbidden. The discussion of paint ball is not forbidden. Hunting is forbidden, but the discussion of it is not. Playing football (tackle) is forbidden, but the discussion of it is not.

There are many more examples of such things, were the actual doing is against G2SS, but the discussion of it is not. No where in G2SS does it say to not discuss the safety of paint ball, or the safety of football, or the safety of hunting. Wait, in the rifle shooting merit badge it does discuss the safety of hunting.

JazerNorth

[mhjacobson]

Guys, in many ways you are both right: In scouting we are to follow the G2SS, and in our private lives we have the right to voice our opinions. What is important to remember is that we are dealing with youth, and some of our scouts may not be mature enough to understand what we are saying when we say that "it is not ok in scouting and ok in prive life," and might just think that we are endorsing paint ball!

In a scouting environment best to say within the "paint ball is not allowed in the scouting program" idea and leave any additional comments to out of scouting.

[ASM-142]

Yes, playing paint ball is forbidden. The discussion of paint ball is not forbidden. Hunting is forbidden, but the discussion of it is not. Playing football (tackle) is forbidden, but the discussion of it is not.

There are many more examples of such things, were the actual doing is against G2SS, but the discussion of it is not. No where in G2SS does it say to not discuss the safety of paint ball, or the safety of football, or the safety of hunting. Wait, in the rifle shooting merit badge it does discuss the safety of hunting.

JazerNorth

I agree that the discussion of hunting is allowed. This is clearly stated in the G2SS "Hunting is not an authorized Cub Scout or Boy Scout activity, although hunting safety is part of the program curriculum"

Tackle football is not forbidden. The G2SS states "Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities".

[wagionvigil]

Remember Hunting is part of the Venturing Program.

[Cowboy]

I feel that we should keep the door open at all times on all topics. We should teach the boys that it is okay to discuss and learn about anything. That is part of what Scouting is about.
Take out a brand new Scout Handbook. Open the very front cover and what do you find? A pamphlet discussing sexual and physical abuse. Neither of these actions are approved by BSA! Neither of these actions are encouraged by BSA. But we still take the time to teach about them. We still have people trained to deal with them in the program, and we still discuss them with boys when it becomes necassary. Take this one step further:
YPT is nothing more than a list of things that we can not do with the boys. If a boy asks if he can sleep in your tent are you simply going to tell him no? If he asks "Why not?" are you going to explain to him why it is not acceptable, or are you just going to tell him to ask his Mom?
We do not allow alcohol at any Scout function. We can get together (as over 21 yr old adults) and enjoy a beer. If a boy wants to ask a question about alcohol are you going to tell him to ask his dad? What if dad is an alcoholic and the boy needs guidance? Slamming the door in his face just because alcohol is banned by BSA will only make matters worse.
Just my opinion: Do not stop discussion just because the act is prohibited.

[mhjacobson]

Yes! We should talk about many things that involve safety and life with our scouts as many of them view us as people that they can talk with about subjects that they might not talk about with their parents. This includes discussions of things that might not be in the scouting program. However many of the topics are reflected in MB and other programs (Personal Management, Automobile Safety, Family Life) that are not directly part of the BSA program.

[kwildman]

I think that BSA should open up paintball to the G2SS for Troops. I think it is an age appropriate activity for teenagers, its fun and it promotes team work. As an NRA instructor i dont think that this goes against what we are training youth for safe firearms. This is an activity in a controlled setting, with safety gear, and supervision.