Eagle At 13?

[imjorman040991]

are you going to exclude a boy who is more reserved because he's not the charismatic leader you envision?

Yes, an eagle scout is a leader. He shouldnt be some KID who jus passed off requirments in a hurry...and guess what im talking about you to...a 12 year old earns his eagle by passing off requirments without really showing what he can do

[scoutaholic]

are you going to exclude a boy who is more reserved because he's not the charismatic leader you envision?

Yes, an eagle scout is a leader. He shouldnt be some KID who jus passed off requirments in a hurry...and guess what im talking about you to...a 12 year old earns his eagle by passing off requirments without really showing what he can do

OK imjorman... You are correct that a boy must show leadership ability to become an Eagle. However, we can't say that no 12-year-old can possibly be a good leader. Any 12-year-old who earns his eagle by 'passing off requirements' has obviously done some 'showing what he can do'. While I agree that FEW young scouts can earn Eagle, it is possible, and I'm sure there are some 12-year-olds who CAN.

While I don't know maricopasem and can't vouch for how he earned his Eagle, I won't assume that he didn't. I can say that any young Eagle who I work with EARNs his Eagle just like the older boys have to do.

[Lynda J]

I have known "leaders" that could "talk the talk". But they couldn't "walk the walk". Flash and razzle dazzle does not make a leader. It makes a showman.
My dad was a great leader but you never realized he was leading.
He said the sign of a good leader is someone that everything gets done and when the job is done everyone feels they worked equally on the job. No one feels like they had been led. A good leader will work with others to the point that no one realized they are being led. Being able to stand up in front of people and talk does not a leader make. Being able to follow through on projects and such does.

There are two boys in my troop. One will stand up and shout orders. The boys are really getting tired of it. They don't want to follow him. Another is quieter, when he needs something done he will talk to one or two of the other boys very quietly. Guess what. Things always get done. The boy like doing things with and for him.

How many politicians can stand up and talk a great 'line" but never follow through.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Then maybe BSA should start a new badge, Eagle & Showman, cause I know some out there earning their Eagle are not leaders, but fall more into the showman category, as you describe.

[PPC_NYLT]

Ask your self these questions...

At 12yrs and so many months, is the scout old enough and mature enough to actually understand what it means to be an eagle scout?

Is this pre-teen (he isn't even a teenager yet!) capable of fulfilling the responsibilities that can come along with this honor?

Now here's my opinion:

As an Eagle Scout, it is my experience and belief that most 12 and 13 y/o scouts are not mature enough to fully understand their accomplishment. I also feel that a scout that young won't have a strong enough foundation to be an effective leader for a couple reasons. First he will more likely than not have an extremely wide skill and knowledge base. After only a year or two in scouting, a scout will have learned alot, but will not have enough time to experience and apply the knowledge he has learned so that he can teach it to and lead others. Second, at this age the scout probably hasn't had the chance to go to NYLT (formorly JLTC). As an Eagle Scout, you are expected to be a leader in the troop and in the patrol, but it is unrealistic to believe that one can become an effective leader if he has not been given the skills to be an effective leader. If a scout earns the rank at an early age, Congratulations. He had to work hard to get there so quick. If a scout earns the rank at 17, Congratulations.

This is just how I feel. This, in no way, is a reflection on anybody I know because every Eagle climbed the same mountain.

DISCLAIMER:
This does not hold true to any scout and I do not want to offend anybody who reads this. I believe that this forum exists so we can share opinions with one another and learn from one another, not critize our brother and sister scouts.

[RMM]

I am not sure age matters outside of Eagle before age 18. I have seen a few young men who are able to lead at 13. IF so, then I would support them earning Eagle at this rank and more power to them. However, this is not the norm. Most of the Star scouts we have are 12, 13. They are immature and are not demonstrating living in the scout spirt and leadership. Yes they were elected into the patrol leader positon so they have the POR. They do their best as patrol leader and it "works" so the ASMs and I agree to consider this requirement being met for advancement. However, the boys do not always live the scout law, etc friendly, courteous, kind, etc. We meet with the boys and parents to explain this, provide guidance and we are seeing the boys come around as they mature. To dates, the boys parents are supportive. They also point out to "johnny" that if they follow the scout law more like "timmy" (who is also 13), then they will have earned the Life and be ready to start earning Eagle. In the meantime, continue to learn, earn more merit badges so there is not a merit badge issue in moving from Life to Eagle.

All boys earn Eagle at different times as they earn the merit badges at a different rate and mature at different rates.

My two cents.

[jr56]

All boys mature at different rates, and have different leadership styles.
Any scout who has completed the requirements, has earned his Eagle. He has climbed the mountain and is to be congratulated, not condemmed.

[WeeWillie]

Last month I ran the 6 Knot Relay at the District Camporee. The 6 knots were anounced at Round Table two months earlier. I had a newly minted, just turned 14 Eagle Scout and Patrol Leader who could not tie a square knot. Nobody in his patrol expected him to tie a square knot. and there were several derogatory comments made about his lack of Scout Craft Skills. The ASM that was accompanying the Patrol just shrugged his shoulders. I don't blame the Scout for his nonachievement, I blame his indifferent Adult leaders.

[WeeWillie]

Then there was the 15 year old Eagle SPL who could not tie a Round Turn with 2 Half Hitches.

[deweylure]

Each scout who makes Eagle is an individual. Therefore I think it is unfair to judge the scout by age. The scout can lead to the best of his ability for his age group.
One boy in our troop will make Eagle at about 12.5 yrs of age. He was able to join early since he earned his Arrow of Light. Each time I see him I see a more mature person,that little boy is no more and he is mature enough for his age. He needs 5 required badges. It will take him some time to complete camping ,personal fitness and mgmt,family life and swimming.
My son will make it about 13-13.5. hopefully He has swimming .camping communication and personal fitness to go. He is maturing and scouting is definitely helping.

I know both nscouts may get silly at times but boys will be boys . a gentile nudge is all that s needed to set them back on the path.

I suggest everyone reads a poem called "Just A Boy" MY dad read it at a BLUE and GOLD dinner when I was a cub scout some 35 yrs ago. I still remeber it and it makes sense. Just google it up.

[RMM]

All boys mature at different rates, and have different leadership styles.
Any scout who has completed the requirements, has earned his Eagle. He has climbed the mountain and is to be congratulated, not condemmed.

Agreed, and well stated

[maricopasem]

Then there was the 15 year old Eagle SPL who could not tie a Round Turn with 2 Half Hitches.

Oh my gosh! It's an utter travesty. No wonder numbers are falling.

[Scouting179]

Like it or not, age is not a requirement for Eagle. Neither is one's idea of maturity. National will overturn advancement denials based on this everytime.

[jr56]

Agreed, all boys mature at different rates, achieve different levels of maturity, different styles of leadership, and different degrees of competancy in conducting leadership skills. Every Eagle is slightly different, as they should be.

[WeeWillie]

Maricopasem

All sarcasm achieves is having your topic locked by the moderators when it gets out of hand. It also sends a poor message to the Scouts on the forum. That said, I will answer your question.

My ASMs and I have been working hard at being a boy run troop. Our Scouts have been working hard honing their Scout Skills. Friday night of the Camporee our SPL and PL got together and practiced their knots skills with the troop for the next day's events. Our troop earned:

1st Place – Best Campsite

1st Place – 6 Knot Relay

1st Place – Tripod Bosom Mates Chair

1st Place – 4 Square Dodge Ball

3rd Place – Black Skillet Cooking

My scouts are jazzed by their accomplishment. They are looking forward to the next camporee. A.K.A retention.

The Webelos and parents attending the camporee took notice of what troop won the most first place ribbons. Hopefully that will result in more Webelos bridging to T480.

Years ago we were the largest troop in our district with 23 Scouts. My third camping trip as SM included only 4 Scouts. Scout meetings were boring. The older Scouts just hung out.

We just recharterd with 15 Scouts. Our attendence at camping trips is now 10-12 enthusuastic Scouts with a reasonably competent SPL and PLs. The advantage of a boy run troop is that I can focus on being a Scoutmaster instead of a 52 year old Patrol Leader. As for retention, I will remain as SM for another year.

[WeeWillie]

Don't confuse criticism of policies and practices that lead to young Eagle Scouts who can not perform basic Scout Skills like the Square Knot, with comdemation of the Scout. Primary responsibility for those situations resides with the Adults who allow it to happen.

[mhjacobson]

The issue is not the age of a scout when he reaches the eagle rank, the issue is more complicated:
1. did the scout have the skills at the time that he was signed off? (and remember that with the exception of camping and first aid merit badges most of the scouting skills that are part of the skill set of an eagle scouts were accomplised at FIRST CLASS and are not part of Eagle requirements); and
2. does the troop give the scouts ample opportunities to practice their skills on a regular basis.

The scout who earned his First Class, who does not practice the skills on a regular basis will forget them even if he knew them well enough to obtain his sign-off at the proper time. Practice consists of the following:
1. Learning
2. Doing
3. Showing (sign-off)
4. Teaching

Any scout who has a POR should be in the role of teaching skills to those scouts who are below the rank of first class. In this role they are not only strengthening their scouting skills, but they are also strengthening the troop. The scouts who accomplish all of the 4 steps of practicing a skill will certainly be among those scouts who will be identified by people as "There goes a real Eagle Scout."

[jr56]

Very well stated, thank you.

[scoutmasterbob]

I think they made it possible to get your Eagle so quickly is so a boy can participate in the other scouting experiences that are available, for example:
At 14 a boy can be a Varsity scout, Vasrsity have thier own awards and achievements that can be earned by that group.
At 16 a boy can be a Venture or Explorer, these groups have thier own awards and achievments.
If a boy is still working on his eagle when he is 14 or 16 then it takes away from the other scouting programs that are available.

[wagionvigil]

A youth can join a crew or a Ship when he or she is 14 and finished grade 8. Now if a SCout switches and has finished up to first Class he may finish Eagle as a Venture through the crew. We are finding out that scouts that join a crew (which is youth operated) become better troop leaders if they stay registered with their troop also. A local youth recently receieved his Eagle and Ranger Award at the Same COH