Rank advancement tests

[BlackEagle]

Does any Troop administer rank advancement tests? If so, where the tests approved by the Troop Committee, or at least by the Advancement Chair / Committee?

Thank you!

[wagionvigil]

Are you crazy? You cannot do that!!!

[PPC_NYLT]

rank advancement tests??? what is the is school? (and i say this in a non-baligerant type way)

[JazerNorth]

Explain why...

I know and you know, but BlackEagle may not know why.

JazerNorth

[wagionvigil]

this has been discussed here before. you can add NOTHING to the requirements for any advancement. You cannot retest any requirements once signed off! No one in any position can question any advancement once signed off.
Scout Spirit- Scout oath and Laws simple? Attending activities, meetings etc Not part of the equation.

[BlackEagle]

Let me clarify.

Can / would you give a written test to a Scout for the Scout rank, let's say on the describing the Scout badge.

Let me also say, that I understand about adding to or taking away from the requirements. But, on page 24 of the Advancement Committee Guidebook, it says "The Boy Scout is tested." In what ways would some of you test a Scout?

I appreciate all these great answers!

[WeeWillie]

What a welcome for a new forum member.

A BOR is not a retest that a Scout can tie a knot, identify 10 animals, perform CPR... Focus on what he has learned.

What requirement was the most difficult for you to learn?

Have you used your 1st Aid Skills?

I see you earned Citizenship in the Community. What did you learn about you community?

What did you forget to pack on your last camping trip?

What is your favorit camp meal?

You would be surprised at the answers.

[BlackEagle]

Again, thank you for all of the posts. And Mr. Wilson, I love your sample BOR questions. At least we won't get the yes, no, fine answer that boys typically give a group of adults on the other side of the table.

Let me give you this scenario of what I am talking about. A group of Webelo II's have crossed over, and going through their Scout requirements. A leader is going over the Scout Oath, Law and Motto, and getting them to describe the Scout Badge. No one has signed off anything in their book, would giving a written test be appropriate? The leader is obviously giving them an oral exam, and will probably sign off the requirement as each one is met with each boy.

And, as an added bonus, U.S. Scout ( http://usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp#rank & http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank2.html ) offers rank advancement test forms on their web-site.

I really appreciate all of the feedback!

[gwd-scouter]

Black Eagle - in the situation you describe (signing off on Scout badge) PL or Troop Guide in our Troop works with the new Scouts to learn the requirements. Then I have the opportunity to sit with each new Scout to do the SM Conference and sign off on the badge. We go over the requirements together: We discuss the Scout Oath and Law, we recite them together, can he tell me when he would use the Scout sign, Scout salute, we look in his handbook and go over the Scout badge together.

Usually the Scout is nervous and this may be the first time he has to talk one-on-one with a "strange" adult. I never conduct the SM Conference like a test, but rather use it as an opportunity to talk to the Scout, give him some insight on the SM Conference process and to begin to feel more at ease. That way, it hopefully will not be so intimidating for him when he goes for the Tenderfoot SM Conference and BOR.

I agree with others that have posted here so far - no way should a written test be given to test a Scout for rank advancement. Whoever is signing off in the handbooks, should not do so until the Scout has demonstrated that he knows and can do the requirement.

[wagionvigil]

Ok now that you have clarified the situation the answer is still (in my own mind) No. As an educator for over 30 years I did everything in my power to make sure scouts was never like school and giving written test would just be another day in the classroom. I have used work sheets for merit badges but never a written test.

[WVBeaver05]

While I agree with the previous posters that written tests aren't a good idea, there are some cases where I have seen them used well. You obviously can't use them on any requirement that says "demonstrate" or "show".

However, there are (or at least there used to be) requirements like "...identify the following parts of a canoe..." When I taught this Merit Badge (oh so many years ago) at Summer Camp I used a written test for it. Why? Well, at that time we often had a full class (that was 16 Scouts since we had 8 canoes) and there was no time to spare if they were going to complete all the requirements. A written test for that requirement allowed for everyone to be tested on that at once and gave us time to complete the badge. (As a side note, it was not uncommon for one or more of the Staff to be meeting individually with one of the interested Scouts on Friday afternoon or even Saturday morning [departure was typically after lunch Saturday back in those days] to complete requirements that hadn't been met during the week.)

Also, in our Troop (which was much larger then) I recall that there were some parts of the First Aid requirements that were "explain" or "describe" something. Again, with large groups we were able to do these in writing.

Could some of these same things be done today? Sure. I would not object to (judicious) use of written tests for groups of Scouts working on Merit Badges. However, I still prefer one on one discussions where possible.

Just my thoughts.

YiS

[Lynda J]

Written work on Merit Badges is different than work on Rank. Merit Badges have work sheets that need to be filled out. So you are in away giving a written exam. I have an exam that I use for Safety and for First Aid. But it is a tool only. But like others have said if you use a written exam for Rank Advancement you are adding a requirement.

[mhjacobson]

A test is possibly the worst idea in the world. One of the strenths of scouting is that that it continues to raise the bar in terms of the knowledge base of a scout without acting like school. Even, given the canoeing example, in a group -- the leader can point out something on a canoe and have a scout name the part, it takes only about 5 minutes per scout (on an individual basis) or in a group the leader can randomly call on each member of the group to name the part that is being indicated.

[maricopasem]

Merit Badges have work sheets that need to be filled out.

Not true. Any MB work sheets are of somebody's creation and are used at the discretion of the MB counselor. And even that gets a little dicey. To require a Scout to write something when the MB requirement is "show," "demonstrate," "discuss," etc., is likely not appropriate.

[maricopasem]

Are you crazy? You cannot do that!!!

Wow. Apparently a Scout doesn't have to be helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, etc., etc.

[wagionvigil]

lety me explain something ! I am sick and tired of troops setting Rules and regulations that are against BSA Policy. If I was in a position to do something an a council I would remove the leadership immediately of any troop that did this. If wanting things done correctly is wrong Then I wille wrong alot!

[maricopasem]

lety me explain something ! I am sick and tired of troops setting Rules and regulations that are against BSA Policy. If I was in a position to do something an a council I would remove the leadership immediately of any troop that did this. If wanting things done correctly is wrong Then I wille wrong alot!

Wanting things done correctly isn't wrong, it's the sanctimonious attacks on those who are learning that is wrong. Because you aren't in a position to remove volunteer leaders perhaps it would be wise to scale back the diatribes against those who are just trying to figure this out. I imagine that if you keep up the blustering rants against those who ask questions you will very soon be nearly alone in your ivory tower of a forum while mainstream Scouting rolls along without you or the wisdom you could otherwise impart.

[cballman]

Blackeagle first of all the pages you wrote about on the usscouts.org website is just a copy of the requirments not a test. but if you as a ASM if a boy comes to you for a rank req. then by all means talk to the boy about it if he has met the req. then sign him off. but if he dont the explain to him why you wont sign off that req. but let me ask a question How large is your troop? if you have any older boys they should be working as guides so that they can learn from someone closer to their own age. if you are a new and small troop then just remember to let someone know when you ask a question because alot of times us old fogeys think that since you are a leader you have been their for quite a while. there are different wayst to answer a question and through some post in this subject has been a little bad. Now I would like thank you for becomeing a member and welcome you to this board. if you feel that you have been treated unfairly or some questions were answered that left you bewildered the please email me and I will try to help you.

[cballman]

also mentioned in an earlier post was the question on the merit badge worksheets. I will answer that question as a parent, merit badge counsler, and an ASM. NO you cannot require it as part of the merit badge. But as a parent I would strongly suggest that a child use them because all the req. are listed and the worksheets help keep all the written stuff together so the kids have it much easier tody than I had it when I was in scouts a few years ago.

[mhjacobson]

"Wow. Apparently a Scout doesn't have to be helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, etc., etc"

Yes they do, but the troop is not in a position to develop a set of standing rules by which these are measured. How they are to be measured is stated in both the Boy Scout Handbook, and the Scoutmaster's Handbook. Also, it is important to measure the expression of these standards in terms of the individual scout. For example: I would expect a Star Scout to express these in behavioral terms far differently than a Tenderfoot, as I would expect a different level of expression from a 11 year old scout than from a 17 year old scout. And what about scouts with special needs. A set of written rules would make the individuality of the evaluation far more difficult.