Scoutmaster Conference Review

[hacimsaalk]

The requirement reads "participate in". It isn't pass/fail. If you SM doesn't sign off for Scout Spirit, that is a different requirement. You can't fail a SM Conference!

so, what you are trying to say is that the SM conference isnt a review and cant be failed, and the BOR isnt a review and cant be failed. so i suppose that they both are just meetings with the scout to get to know each other better. why even bother wearing your "Class A" to them, might as well just break out the hawaian polo's and the board shorts, and have a grand old time playing and frolicking.

[ASM-142]

... why even bother wearing your "Class A" to them, might as well just break out the hawaian polo's and the board shorts ...

Per BSA rules, a Class A or any uniform is not required for a scout master conference or BOR.

[hacimsaalk]

... why even bother wearing your "Class A" to them, might as well just break out the hawaian polo's and the board shorts ...

Per BSA rules, a Class A or any uniform is not required for a scout master conference or BOR.

oh, so b/c since BSA doesnt say anything about wearing a uniform, it must not be a rule. and, if a troop makes it mandatory in their bylaws, its WRONG i suppose??

and, if a scout doesnt want to, he doesnt have to wear a uniform to his Eagle BOR?

and while we'r talking about "just do" things, are requiremtns for 1st, 2nd and tenderfoot just things that have to be looked over and done half-heartdley. or the final meeting with a MB counselor? does a scout simply have to show up?

it makes no sense what so ever to say that all you have to do is show up to a SM conference, and you get it signed off. if the BSA wnated it that way, they would've just had it check and signed in a new book!!!

where does it state that an SM conference is just for a chat?? it says participate in. it doesnt say how much /how little is to go on. it doesnt specify whether it is a pass or fail thing either.

what about the BOR? is that a participate one too??

[ASM-142]

... oh, so b/c since BSA doesnt say anything about wearing a uniform, it must not be a rule. and, if a troop makes it mandatory in their bylaws, its WRONG i suppose??

Troops can not make rules that require uniforms. I do not have the uniform reference with me now but it is in writing from National that uniforms are not required.

... and, if a scout doesnt want to, he doesnt have to wear a uniform to his Eagle BOR?

That is correct. I do not like it but that is the rule.

... and while we'r talking about "just do" things, are requiremtns for 1st, 2nd and tenderfoot just things that have to be looked over and done half-heartdley. or the final meeting with a MB counselor? does a scout simply have to show up?

Requirement #1
Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it.
This does not say anything about being done half-heartedly.

Requirement #2
Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.
This does not say anything about being done half-heartedly.

... it makes no sense what so ever to say that all you have to do is show up to a SM conference, and you get it signed off. if the BSA wnated it that way, they would've just had it check and signed in a new book!!!

where does it state that an SM conference is just for a chat?? it says participate in. it doesnt say how much /how little is to go on. it doesnt specify whether it is a pass or fail thing either.

The Scout Handbook has good references to what a Scout Master Conference is all about.

what about the BOR? is that a participate one too??

The requirement for this is complete a BOR. The Scout Handbook has good references to what a BOR is all about.

[outfoxed86]

The purpose of the SM conference is for the SM to get to know the scout.

Why do I need a Scoutmaster Conferance to do that. I know all my boys very well. I spend every week with them and campouts every month.
I know them all by name,their parents and syblings names ,what they like to do besides scouting.All with out a SMC. Isnt it my job to know all this? I talk and have fun with my boys. Dosnt every Scoutmaster do this ? At my SMC I dont retest the boys on their skils I talk to them about their role in the troop
If I dont feel their living up to their potential and I ask them to come back and we will talk more. Remember a SMC can be held at any time not just for advancement.
Wayne

[evmori]

A BOR can be failed. Nowhere have I said anything different.

Read the requirements. It's pretty simple.

[hacimsaalk]

The purpose of the SM conference is for the SM to get to know the scout.

Why do I need a Scoutmaster Conferance to do that. I know all my boys very well. I spend every week with them and campouts every month.
I know them all by name,their parents and syblings names ,what they like to do besides scouting.All with out a SMC. Isnt it my job to know all this? I talk and have fun with my boys. Dosnt every Scoutmaster do this ? At my SMC I dont retest the boys on their skils I talk to them about their role in the troop
If I dont feel their living up to their potential and I ask them to come back and we will talk more. Remember a SMC can be held at any time not just for advancement.
Wayne

i agree wit outfoxed. i wasnt trying to say that a SMC should be a re-test. i was just trying to say that it can be failed. i guess it ties in a lot with the "Live the Scout Oath" req. too.

[evmori]

The purpose of the SM conference is for the SM to get to know the scout.

Why do I need a Scoutmaster Conference to do that. I know all my boys very well. I spend every week with them and campouts every month.
I know them all by name,their parents and syblings names ,what they like to do besides scouting.All with out a SMC. Isnt it my job to know all this? I talk and have fun with my boys. Dosnt every Scoutmaster do this ? At my SMC I dont retest the boys on their skils I talk to them about their role in the troop
If I dont feel their living up to their potential and I ask them to come back and we will talk more. Remember a SMC can be held at any time not just for advancement.
Wayne

i agree wit outfoxed. i wasnt trying to say that a SMC should be a re-test. i was just trying to say that it can be failed. i guess it ties in a lot with the "Live the Scout Oath" req. too.

No it can't be failed! And if you are failing Scouts on a SM Conference you are in direct violation of the BSA because you are adding to the requirements. Living the Scout Oath & Law has nothing to do with the SM Conference. That is a completely separate requirement!

[hacimsaalk]

The purpose of the SM conference is for the SM to get to know the scout.

Why do I need a Scoutmaster Conference to do that. I know all my boys very well. I spend every week with them and campouts every month.
I know them all by name,their parents and syblings names ,what they like to do besides scouting.All with out a SMC. Isnt it my job to know all this? I talk and have fun with my boys. Dosnt every Scoutmaster do this ? At my SMC I dont retest the boys on their skils I talk to them about their role in the troop
If I dont feel their living up to their potential and I ask them to come back and we will talk more. Remember a SMC can be held at any time not just for advancement.
Wayne

i agree wit outfoxed. i wasnt trying to say that a SMC should be a re-test. i was just trying to say that it can be failed. i guess it ties in a lot with the "Live the Scout Oath" req. too.

No it can't be failed! And if you are failing Scouts on a SM Conference you are in direct violation of the BSA because you are adding to the requirements. Living the Scout Oath & Law has nothing to do with the SM Conference. That is a completely separate requirement!

from what everyone has been saying: the SMC is a review of how the scout has been doing in the troop, how life's going, how he is living up to potential, and how he shows the scout oath/law in his life. as outfoxed said, if a scout isnt living up to the "standards", then there is no reason he should be "passed" (at least for the time being). for example, if you (as an SM) know that a scout has been drinking (alcohol of course) and do illegal drugs, then in good conscience when it comes time for the SMC, how can you sign off on it when you know what he has been up to? this is something that could be spread to the other scouts, and become a BIGGGGG PROBLEM.

are you just going to let him go, sign off on it, and pretend you dont notice anything (as he sits in front of you scorched out of his gourd)? Or do you tell him "no, im not going to sign off on the SMC. I think maybe you need to go and rethink what you are doing in the scouting program, and some of the choices you have made." ?

[hops_scout]

Micah, you need to read what the other people are reading before making accusing comments like that.

What they are trying to say is that the Scoutmaster Conference cannot be "failed" and therefore not signed off. If you conference with your SM, technically that requirement can (and should in reality) be signed off.

Your example of "being stoned, drunk, etc" would not be reason to "fail a Scoutmaster Conference but rather have the Scout Spirit requirement not signed off. Many troops leave that requirement unsigned until the SM Conference.

[hacimsaalk]

Micah, you need to read what the other people are reading before making accusing comments like that.

What they are trying to say is that the Scoutmaster Conference cannot be "failed" and therefore not signed off. If you conference with your SM, technically that requirement can (and should in reality) be signed off.

Your example of "being stoned, drunk, etc" would not be reason to "fail a Scoutmaster Conference but rather have the Scout Spirit requirement not signed off. Many troops leave that requirement unsigned until the SM Conference.

i wasnt accussing any body of anything. i was just trying to sum up what I have gotten out of everything.

i think that most people are stuck on little technicalities like the word "participate". i dont think that when the BSA wrote it, they wanted everything done down to the "t". maybe im just a little lax on stuff like this, but i think that this takes the rigidity of the program to a whole new level.

basically, all that we are arguing about is what WE (each one of us) thinks it should be done, and how our troops do it. B/C in all reality, if a scout wanted to, he could take his SMC before he even started to work on the reqs. for the rank.

Your example of "being stoned, drunk, etc" would not be reason to "fail a Scoutmaster Conference but rather have the Scout Spirit requirement not signed off. M

so, (not trying to rag on ya or anything) a scout that came to you for his SMC totally out of it, you would sign his SMC off in his book, but not sign off his Scout Spirit req? (just asking for some clarification)

[hops_scout]

I guess you could argue whether they really "participated" or not if they're in that kind of condition..

Hate to break it to you though.... If somebody comes to a Scoutmaster Conference in that kind of condition, it's gonna be the least of my worries and his worries that he doesn't get the requirement signed off.

[cballman]

in our troop the conference is the last req that is signed off before they go to the BOR. the Scoutmaster also signs off on the scout spirt req. at the same moment. so he might get the conference part signed off but not the spirt and that is done so that the scoutmaster can talk to each boy. now as to another poster said about knowing each boy and parents that is great we in our troop also know each boy and parents but its hard to talk to each and every one every meeting because when you have over 50 active boys then it just takes time.

[WVBeaver05]

One of my guiding principal's is that if I expect my youth (this includes Scouts, softball players, children, etc.) to follow the rules (and I do), then I must set the example and follow the rules that apply to me. And this means ALL the rules, not just the ones that I agree with. (If I don't agree with it, I can always work to get it changed - and, at times, I do that as well.)

The rules set boundaries of where the flexibility is and we can operate within that, but not outside it. This is where Scout Leaders who attend training are told repeatedly that no one can add to or subtract from the requirements. In the Guide to Safe Scouting, the instructions using "must" (rather than "should") set the limits as well. So, it is clear to me that there are things where the BSA does expect things to be done a specific way.

YiS

[hacimsaalk]

I guess you could argue whether they really "participated" or not if they're in that kind of condition..

Hate to break it to you though.... If somebody comes to a Scoutmaster Conference in that kind of condition, it's gonna be the least of my worries and his worries that he doesn't get the requirement signed off.

that was my poit, i guess

ditto. for some reason i could see his scouting carreer coming to an end

[wagionvigil]

That is so far out in the what if zone it is unbelievable. Anyway the BSA policies on Drugs and Alcohol are pretty firm. The young man would no longer be in scouts as those actions would be reported to the Council Service center and the Council executive would immediately remove the scout from the program That is if the troop reports it which under youth Protection they must. But again what if they do not? What can happen? Is the troop leadership liable ?

[outfoxed86]

That is so far out in the what if zone it is unbelievable. Anyway the BSA policies on Drugs and Alcohol are pretty firm. The young man would no longer be in scouts as those actions would be reported to the Council Service center and the Council executive would immediately remove the scout from the program That is if the troop reports it which under youth Protection they must. But again what if they do not? What can happen? Is the troop leadership liable ?

To get back to SMC. I wasnt saying that its a pass or fail thing. I'm saying that its my decision if I want to sign it off. I might need to talk to a scout because his advancement is slipping. So I have a SCM with him. I dont sign it off in his book. We might have several befoe I do. The purpose of the SMC is to keep you one on one with the scout. Some times its not as easy without it as cballman stated .
Wayne

[wagionvigil]

I was replying to micahs stoned scoput coming to a BOR or SC.

[outfoxed86]

ok maybe I'll let it slide this time
wayne

[evmori]

Here's the requirement

Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. (emphasis added)

The only way this requirement should not be signed is it the Scout doesn't have a SM Conference. There is no pass/fail in participate.

This ain't rocket science!