Scoutmaster Conference Review

[outfoxed86]

Here's the requirement

Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. (emphasis added)

The only way this requirement should not be signed is it the Scout doesn't have a SM Conference. There is no pass/fail in participate.

This ain't rocket science!

so when I sit down and talk to a scout about his lack of advancement I should sign off his SMC? I dont think so
wayne

[wagionvigil]

par·tic·i·pate (pär-ts-pt) KEY

VERB:
par·tic·i·pat·ed , par·tic·i·pat·ing , par·tic·i·pates
VERB:
intr.

To take part in something: participated in the festivities.
To share in something: If only I could participate in your good fortune.
VERB:
tr.
Archaic

[hops_scout]

Does it say anywhere about WHEN the SMC must be conducted? I don't believe so therefore technically you should sign off on it when you conference with a Scout who is not advancing.

[hacimsaalk]

I was replying to micahs stoned scoput coming to a BOR or SC.

i wasnt trying to be "off the wall" or just plain dumb. what i was trying to get across is that the scout would almost have to be "failed" in some situations.

so when I sit down and talk to a scout about his lack of advancement I should sign off his SMC? I dont think so

i agree 100% with wayne. if a scout isnt advancing, there isnt no way he's gonna ge signed off. same way with leadership. if he is SPL and totally slacking off, there is no reason what so ever that he should be signed off.


or how about not neccesarily "failing" him or not signing off, just rather postpone the signing of the book for several weeks (to look for improvement). make it like one drawn out meeting.

[outfoxed86]

Does it say anywhere about WHEN the SMC must be conducted? I don't believe so therefore technically you should sign off on it when you conference with a Scout who is not advancing.

NOWAY You must be joking The SMC is the only requirement that only the scoutmaster can sign off. so its my decision when I sign it just because I talk to a scout dosnt mean I have to sign it . Everytime I talk to a scout about how he is doing in the troop its a SMC that dosnt mean I have to sign it off in his book
Wayne

[outfoxed86]

par·tic·i·pate (pär-ts-pt) KEY

VERB:
par·tic·i·pat·ed , par·tic·i·pat·ing , par·tic·i·pates
VERB:
intr.

To take part in something: participated in the festivities.
To share in something: If only I could participate in your good fortune.
VERB:
tr.
Archaic

I'm sorry wagionvigil
your missing the point I know what participate means
that was just rude ( please remember the scout law)
I'm stating that i decide when I sign
wayne

[hops_scout]

National says you can't add or subtract requirements. You making the decision that "this SMC counts" would be adding to the requirements. It's saying that the Scout must prove something to you.

Time for you to look back at the Scout Law as well and follow BSA policies because remember a Scout is obediant.

[outfoxed86]

National says you can't add or subtract requirements. You making the decision that "this SMC counts" would be adding to the requirements. It's saying that the Scout must prove something to you.

Time for you to look back at the Scout Law as well and follow BSA policies because remember a Scout is obediant.

I'm not adding anything to the requirement. its still my decision when I sign it. Bottom Line .

Obediant dosnt mean Blind obediance

wayne

[WVBeaver05]

Let me interject a couple of quotes here (emphasis added):

From the Boy Scout Handbook (Tenderfoot requirements section):

14. Participate in a Scoutmaster Conference

After you finish all the requirements to become a Tenderfoot Scout, you and your Scoutmaster will sit down and talk. You should be gaining confidence in your ability to be a Scout, and Scouting should be fulfilling its promise to you. The Scoutmaster conference is an opportunity to reflect on what you have accomplished so far and to get a bigger picture of how to approach the challenges that lie ahead.

And from the Scoutmaster Handbook (Chapter 10):

The Scoutmaster Conference

The Scoutmaster conference is a visit between the Scoutmaster and a Scout that is held each time the boy completes the requirments for a rank.
...
A Scout taking part in a Scoutmaster conference will be able to determine if he is ready to go before the board of review. ...

These quotations seem to clearly indicate that for requirements purposes, a "Scoutmaster conference" is not just any meeting between a Scout and Scoutmaster. Both indicate that it is the conference/meeting/visit that is done when all the requirements for a rank have been completed and before the BOR.

Do I think that resolves all the issues here? Nope. But it does address some of what has been raised.

YiS

[hops_scout]

Well then WVBeaver, I'll have to take back part of what I've said previously. That solves the timing of it I guess. Now you want to try solving the "pass" or "fail" part too?

[evmori]

par·tic·i·pate (pär-ts-pt) KEY

VERB:
par·tic·i·pat·ed , par·tic·i·pat·ing , par·tic·i·pates
VERB:
intr.

To take part in something: participated in the festivities.
To share in something: If only I could participate in your good fortune.
VERB:
tr.
Archaic

I'm sorry wagionvigil
your missing the point I know what participate means
that was just rude ( please remember the scout law)
I'm stating that i decide when I sign
wayne

Ya beat me to the punch wagon! I was gonna post that next!

The posting of the definition wasn't rude. It was to make a point. If you have a Conference with the Scout to discuss his current advancement, the Scout participated in a SM Conference. If you as SM have a problem with something else regarding his advancement, don't sign that requirement until it is completed! But deciding when the SM Conference "counts" is just ludicrous.

[hacimsaalk]

par·tic·i·pate (pär-ts-pt) KEY

VERB:
par·tic·i·pat·ed , par·tic·i·pat·ing , par·tic·i·pates
VERB:
intr.

To take part in something: participated in the festivities.
To share in something: If only I could participate in your good fortune.
VERB:
tr.
Archaic

I'm sorry wagionvigil
your missing the point I know what participate means
that was just rude ( please remember the scout law)
I'm stating that i decide when I sign
wayne

Ya beat me to the punch wagon! I was gonna post that next!

The posting of the definition wasn't rude. It was to make a point. If you have a Conference with the Scout to discuss his current advancement, the Scout participated in a SM Conference. If you as SM have a problem with something else regarding his advancement, don't sign that requirement until it is completed! But deciding when the SM Conference "counts" is just ludicrous.

i dont think "counting" it is neccessarily the problem. i would think that the problem mostly, if what if there is aprobelm with the scout who is doing his SMC with you. ie: poor attendance, slacking on the job, bullying, etc. my suggestion would be just prolong the SMC for a couple of weeks. dont neccessarily say "NO" to this scout and dash the scouts confidence to shreds, just tell him that you feel there are some issues that you and him need to work on or work out. explain that you aren't "failing" him, like a BOR, you're merely postponing putting your signature in his book until you and him have come to terms.

this isn't adding to, nor is it taking away, and it gets issues resolved.

[ASM-142]

poor attendance,

Attendence is not a requirement for any rank advancement.

slacking on the job,

This has nothing to do with SMC but fulfilling a position of responsibility.

bullying,

This would fall under scout spirit not the SMC.

[ASM-142]

The SMC is the only requirement that only the scoutmaster can sign off.

The SM is the only one that can sign off for any rank andvancement requirement unless s/he delegates this responsibility. The SM can even delegate the SMC if s/he chooses.

[ASM-142]

Let me interject a couple of quotes here (emphasis added):

From the Boy Scout Handbook (Tenderfoot requirements section):

14. Participate in a Scoutmaster Conference

After you finish all the requirements to become a Tenderfoot Scout, you and your Scoutmaster will sit down and talk. You should be gaining confidence in your ability to be a Scout, and Scouting should be fulfilling its promise to you. The Scoutmaster conference is an opportunity to reflect on what you have accomplished so far and to get a bigger picture of how to approach the challenges that lie ahead.

And from the Scoutmaster Handbook (Chapter 10):

The Scoutmaster Conference

The Scoutmaster conference is a visit between the Scoutmaster and a Scout that is held each time the boy completes the requirments for a rank.
...
A Scout taking part in a Scoutmaster conference will be able to determine if he is ready to go before the board of review. ...

These quotations seem to clearly indicate that for requirements purposes, a "Scoutmaster conference" is not just any meeting between a Scout and Scoutmaster. Both indicate that it is the conference/meeting/visit that is done when all the requirements for a rank have been completed and before the BOR.

Do I think that resolves all the issues here? Nope. But it does address some of what has been raised.

YiS

Based on the above quotes if a scout has all the requirements except the SMC signed off and then meets with the SM one-on-one then the SM should sign the SMC and should not have a reason not to.

[wagionvigil]

That would be correct Sir!

[ICanCanoeCanU]

*grabbing popcorn*

[hacimsaalk]

so, after all req's are signed off in the book, a SM and the scout meet together one-on-one, and thats it, its signed off? it doesnt matter if there are problems with the scout or anything, its just that simple?

would the BOR be able to fail the scout if there are issues?

[wagionvigil]

the problems are handled before the SMC Like in Scout Spirit etc. The SMC is not the final say it is just a conference Like Billy you are lacking in scout spirit and not living the Oath You have soem issues that need resolved. Then sign off Participate in SMC. But scout spirit is NOT signed off so Billy Does Not Advance . Does this now make sense?
The Following are from second class req
9.Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Not Signed off
10. Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. Signed off
11. Complete your board of review. does not happen because of 9!

[hacimsaalk]

the problems are handled before the SMC Like in Scout Spirit etc. The SMC is not the final say it is just a conference Like Billy you are lacking in scout spirit and not living the Oath You have soem issues that need resolved. Then sign off Participate in SMC. But scout spirit is NOT signed off so Billy Does Not Advance . Does this now make sense?
The Following are from second class req
9.Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Not Signed off
10. Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. Signed off
11. Complete your board of review. does not happen because of 9!

ok, i see now. you sign off on the SMC, but you stop him from getting rank by not signing the scout spirit. now this makes sense. before i was wondering why a slacking (oath problemed) scout was advancing.